Help! Need some advice...

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heylow

heylow

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Didn't know where else to post this...
I need some sagely advice or at least some objective views...ANY and ALL appreciated!

I'm currently putting together a home studio. I got plentyof space and (right now) only a small amount of experience with some adats...gotta start somewhere. Armed with with everything I can find to read including my Tapeop mags and book, my aim is mostly to more creatively record my bands music and learn something cool along the way. Maybe even do friends' projects and so on.

1. I was originally going to start with the Mackie 8 buss but am now seriously leaning towards a Studiomaster Mixdown Classic 8 as it seems to have more features for the bread and (I've heard) possibly nicer pres. Whaddaya think? Whaddaya know?

2. Recorders...I want to spend about 2 grand on a recorder and have a dilemma. Originally I was waiting on Alesis to ship the HD24 as it seems like a great unit for the money, easy to use, loads of tracks, 24/96 on 12 tracks or 24/48 on 24 tracks, and perfect for my budget!

However, I more and more find myself strangely attracted to the 8 track analog format and know I can get a PERFECT Otari 5050III 1/2" for that price or less. Many of my favorite records have been done in this format and many even on this machine. The pros are that cool analog tape sound and the idea that I might learn a lot about the real deal...real tape, maintenence, bouncing, editing, etc and the cons are that I have never done any analog maintenence, bouncing, editing, etc. plus the limited number of tracks. (although the latter may force some real creativity!)

Can i learn? Is it worth it? I have been trying to decide this very thing for so long I don't know which way is up anymore. I could use any thoughts you might have.

Thanks! and I'm sorry this is so long!

PS Powered or unpowered monitors?!
 
I was getting serviced by a fat chick once, and I realised something.
If it FEELS good, it IS good.
Go with whatever seems best to you.
Nothing wrong with analog, if you can afford tape all the time. Good analog sounds fantastic. I think for $2000 I would go with a very nice handbuilt 1.4ghz CPU workstation with lotsa mem and dual monitor support($700) and add a nice soundcard to it ($500). Then buy yourself one really nice preamp (Vintech 1272, Great River MP-2NV, Brent Averill 1272, Avalon m5) and one really nice converter (Lucid AD1296) and use the really good stuff for all the overdubs, and use the board as extra pre's to get all the drums mic'ed and do live stuff. Once you start learning a editing program you'll be addicted and in need of help, like the rest of us.
Peace,
Paul
 
can I be nice and rude and ask you:
* what gear do you have at the moment?
* what budget do you have available?
* can you calibrate an analogue machine, or do you have someone near to teach you?

If you provide us with some more detailed information we might be able to advice you with a bit more clarity.
 
Analog or digital... The everlasting quest...

I would go digital... There's enough to be learned with that. Also 24 tracks is ALOT more than 8... And the editing possibilities... You are considering an analog non-automated mixer, so editing might help you when riding your faders...

I'd trade my VS1880 anytime if you don't like what you bought. :D

Don't forget to count in mics, mic stands and cables. They eat alot of money too...
 
More info...

Gear: I don't have much of anything to speak of except what you find in a typical small PA system...dynamic mics, stands, small mixer, etc.

I'm basicly starting this thing and my budget is about 4 grand, give or take, to begin with and, of course, I'll add from there.

I have a friend who works in a local pro studio as an independent engineer and have been lucky enough to assist him in a bunch of projects in their B room (adats) which has really helped me learn.

I'm also positive that the owner of said studio would help me learn calibration, etc but would this not be covered in a descent manual? I'm pretty handy and I would LIKE to learn that sort of stuff so that alone does not disuade me...slow me down a little, maybe;)

Hope this helps you help me better:)
 
Yup, it does.

Lets deal with the tape thing first. If you like, take into consideration that this is coming from someone who's lived with tape for a long time.
Like you said, you can but a 1/2 Otari cheap, very cheap. For good reason.... not a lot of people would like to own one. If you offered me one for free, I'd say no thanks.
A 1/2" 8 track machine does not get near the same quality recording as a 2" 24 track machine, I dare say you'd get a better result with a 20 bit ADAT machine.
Parts (no matter what you are told) are getting difficult to obtain. Many parts are made by specialist machine shops, expensive, and unknown quality.
Don't expect back-up from Otari, they are on the way out. The Radar was their biggest selling / profit making item. The people who developed and made RADAR took it from Otari. Profit gone, company for sale, not a lot of interest from potential buyers as far as I know.
Tape is getting expensive, while digital recording media prices drop. A reel of 2" (I know- you're talking 1/2") for 3 songs is now the same price as a drive for a whole CD project - drives are becoming a disposable item, we now often buy a drive for a project and just give it to the client when its done).
Your money earning potential with 8 tracks is very limited indeed.
It is a VERY time consuming media to work with.
If its in your control room - its noisy.

I can carry one for a while.... do I need to?

With a budget of 4 grand, you could put a very nice basic system together. I don't know what specification your computer is, if its pretty high end you would save yourself a good amount of money.

Of cause I can only talk for myself, but if you are serious about recording and want to do it as a long term hobby, perhaps turning into more than that, I would look for a system with a good upgrade path, something you can expend when you grow.
The "guts" are the most essential part, you can look at nice auxiliary gear at a later stage.

My choice would be to start with SAW StudioLite, which will give you 36 mono or stereo tracks and 12 output tracks with unlimited editing potential, all for about $1200.
To run it you will need a Pentium II at 450, preferably more, windows NT or 2000 software and 384 plus RAM
You can check it out at http://www.iqsoft.com/Products/Index_Products.htm Take a good couple of hours to look through it, its an awesome program. At later stage you can upgrade to the full version for an amazingly small amount of money, which would give you 72 tracks capability.
SAW also supports a bunch of controllers, so, also later, you can buy a fader pack to operate your DAW like a normal console.
As an interface I would get a Lucid ADA8824 8ch A/D and D/A, which is just under 2000. There are other, cheaper options, but that one is what makes good digital sound. You could also get a cheap one, and a good 2 channel good one for most of your tracking.
Now I have to get back to work – go and have a look at the SAW, tell us what you think.
 
Yup, it does.

Lets deal with the tape thing first. If you like, take into consideration that this is coming from someone who's lived with tape for a long time.
Like you said, you can but a 1/2 Otari cheap, very cheap. For good reason.... not a lot of people would like to own one. If you offered me one for free, I'd say no thanks.
A 1/2" 8 track machine does not get near the same quality recording as a 2" 24 track machine, I dare say you'd get a better result with a 20 bit ADAT machine.
Parts (no matter what you are told) are getting difficult to obtain. Many parts are made by specialist machine shops, expensive, and unknown quality.
Don't expect back-up from Otari, they are on the way out. The Radar was their biggest selling / profit making item. The people who developed and made RADAR took it from Otari. Profit gone, company for sale, not a lot of interest from potential buyers as far as I know.
Tape is getting expensive, while digital recording media prices drop. A reel of 2" (I know- you're talking 1/2") for 3 songs is now the same price as a drive for a whole CD project - drives are becoming a disposable item, we now often buy a drive for a project and just give it to the client when its done).
Your money earning potential with 8 tracks is very limited indeed.
It is a VERY time consuming media to work with.
If its in your control room - its noisy.

I can carry one for a while.... do I need to?

With a budget of 4 grand, you could put a very nice basic system together. I don't know what specification your computer is, if its pretty high end you would save yourself a good amount of money.

Of cause I can only talk for myself, but if you are serious about recording and want to do it as a long term hobby, perhaps turning into more than that, I would look for a system with a good upgrade path, something you can expend when you grow.
The "guts" are the most essential part, you can look at nice auxiliary gear at a later stage.

My choice would be to start with SAW StudioLite, which will give you 36 mono or stereo tracks and 12 output tracks with unlimited editing potential, all for about $1200.
To run it you will need a Pentium II at 450, preferably more, windows NT or 2000 software and 384 plus RAM
You can check it out at http://www.iqsoft.com/Products/Index_Products.htm Take a good couple of hours to look through it, its an awesome program. At later stage you can upgrade to the full version for an amazingly small amount of money, which would give you 72 tracks capability.
SAW also supports a bunch of controllers, so, also later, you can buy a fader pack to operate your DAW like a normal console.
As an interface I would get a Lucid ADA8824 8ch A/D and D/A, which is just under 2000. There are other, cheaper options, but that one is what makes good digital sound. You could also get a cheap one, and a good 2 channel good one for most of your tracking.
Now I have to get back to work – go and have a look at the SAW, tell us what you think.

Almost forgot - you need a good card to provide the I/O for SAW, that's about $500
 
The last guy had some great advise. Here's another suggestion.

Before you buy anything, you might want to check out Protools Digi001 system. It's 24 tracks of 24bit non-linear digital joy!! They will send you a free video which is pretty well done. Check out their website at DIGIDESIGN.COM I'd bet you could get the system, some additional mic preamps, some nice mics and monitors and still be under budget. Also, I prefer powered monitors. They have some nice features such as limiting and built in shelving filters, etc.

Remember the days of tape? Nothing like laying tone, cleaning heads, replacing rollers, calibrating and having 1k ringing in your ears. "sorry honey, no sex tonight, I have to play-wind my 1/2 inch!"
 
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