HELP! Need A Condenser that's good for 30-Voice Choir, in Atlanta, GA, for THIS WEEK

  • Thread starter Thread starter stevieb
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stevieb

Just another guy, really.
I agreed to mic/PA the service at my UU church for Easter Sunday, which includes an 30-voice choir, so that overflow people, seated outside, can hear the service. (Why a UU church is so keen on Easter Sunday, don't ask me...) But I realized, all my Condensers, save one small-diaphram which does NOT handle bass well at all, are in New Orleans.

First question: Anybody in the Atlanta Metro area have a good choir condenser they can LOAN me for a week (Rehersal is Wednesday...)?

Second Question: My son has several Condensers, but the only two I know the make and model are a AT4033 and a AT 4040. Are either of those going to be good for this? Any other modest-priced condensers better (on the chance he has the one you like.)

Third Question: I am thinking of only one condenser for the choir, a SM58 at the lecturn, and a SM58 at the piano. Good plan? I could go with the two 40XX's but I am afraid I will have phase issues- gonna be too busy to have to deal with THAT.

Please, if you have one or have good advise, get back to me here quick, so I have time to have my son overnight a mic to me.

Thanks.

EDIT: These are on Atlanta Craigs list right now, at prices I can afford. Any of them good?

MXL 990 $55
MXL V57M $55
MXL 2001 $70
Behringer MIC $50
AKG Perception 200 $100 (really pushing my budget)
Samson c01 $50.

thanks, again.
 
Use one of the ATs. Problem solved. Don't overthink this; these are microphones, easily better quality than any of the choices you listed. Either way, they will pick up sound and people will hear it.
 
^^this is the correct answer, nothing more needs to be said:)^^

What exactly does UU stand for?
 
My son is going to ship the 4033 to me tomorrow, to arrive Friday.

Still, if anyone in Atlanta has a AT4033 and they trust me with it, I'd appreciate it.

One more question:

RE. 4033 mic setup. 30-member choir, standing (when singing) in three rows, straight across, not curved, and angled from both rear and side walls of sanctuary. 40 x 30 space. approx. 20-foot ceilings (guessing on that.)

What is best place to set mic? How far from first row of choristers? How far from that spot can I get and still expect decent balance (there are other factors to consider, like dias setup, people moving on dias, etc.)?

Not to get too complicated, but would either an active crossover (yes, I know this is a "creative" use) and/or an EQ help if SATB voices are thus mic'ed out of balance?

Oh, and mshilarious, you did mean use the AT4033 as the ONE mic for the choir, but use two SM58's for spoken word and one for the piano, right? The dias is about 30 feet wide, and the piano is (from the audience's perspective) way left, the choir pretty far right. Any advantage to using the AT4040 for the piano, instead of the SM58? I have one SM57- better for the piano than the 58?

Thanks again. I love having this resource.
 
My instinct tells me to use a pair of small condensers in a 135 degree ORTF arrangement, mounted on one boom in center front, mics level with last row (if on risers) and 18" forward of the first row. Large diaphragms might work fine, but I'd want more than one if the choir isn't wrapped around it.

Whatever you do, report back - I have a 65 person Gospel choir and a full band to engineer with for two concerts in May and all my anti-muddy sound brain cells are about to burst.

So tell us how it went!:D
 
I appreciate all the advise, and am taking it in. But I have received two conflicting opinions here:
mshilarious said:
Use one of the ATs. Problem solved. Don't overthink this... they will pick up sound and people will hear it.
Click to expand...
Treeline said:
My instinct tells me to use a pair of small condensers in a 135 degree ORTF arrangement,
Click to expand...

Setting aside the fact that I do not have access to a pair of small condensers that have the frequency range I need, you can see the conflict.

Also, my son is shipping the AT's tomorrow morning. Should I have him ship them both? To my mind:
Pros: Wider range of voices picked up.
Cons: Complexity. Balance issues. Two mic stands that can get in the way, two mic cords to mind.

Oh, and if it matters, we are going to try to record the service, if we have time. Planning on tapping off the "outside" mixing board, in two channels: Spoken word mics in mono, piano mic panned left, vocal condensers both panned right. Not planning to pan them "hard" right and left- but maybe we should, so that we get a little more "pure" piano and vocals in the channels, and can mix some choir left and some piano right later? I know you can't undo the R/L pan once it's done. Panning hard L/R would allow us to mix some choir Left, some Piano right. Correct? We do not have a recorder that will record in more than 2 channels (Tascam DP-01.) We DO have access to TWO DP-01's, and I guess we could sync the resulting 4 channels later, but I am thinking the complexity of doing so would overwhelm me. Opinions, please.

Oh, and I will certainly report back, and post the recording if it is decent.
 
Got the 4033, set everything up Saturday evening. Our quick sound check (just the two of us there) and everything seems to be fine. Here's what it is:

2, SM58's, going into Yamaha Stagepass 300, for inside sound reinforcement of spoken word.
SP300 monitor out to Mackie 12-channel board.
SM57 on piano, to Mackie board.
AT4033a at front of choir, as high as a standard mic stand with boom can put it, to Mackie board.
2, SM 58's, near rear of choir area, to reinforce lower voices (quick sound check revealed that condenser would be picking up treble voices more than bass/tenor), to Mackie board.
Board to ElectroVoice 200-watt amp.
EV amp to 2 12"/horn speakers.
Tascam DP-01, coming off Mackie board.

We will see how everything works.
 
Id think that a nice set of overheads would rock in this situation...the proximity effect of the vocal mic might not hurt things too much.
 
Well, it's done. Went pretty well, too.

As I sing in the choir, I was inside, and didn't get to hear the feed- but my friend/fellow UU/co-sound man Keith said the sound was quite good.

We did have time to set up my Tascam DP-01, and all was going well... at the end of the service, UU's have a tradition of a Easter Sunday flower Communion
http://www.uua.org/documents/zottolireginald/flowercommunion.pdf
and it ends with everyone outside the building, on the front lawn. As the ceremony continued, the choir sang the whole time, and once everyone was outside, I had the bright idea that we could turn the speakers and crank the amp, thus piping (I hate that term) the song outside. Signaled to Keith to crank it, and when he did... a bunch of LOUD clicks (Oh, the humanity! Oh, MY SPEAKERS AND POWER AMPS!) and then SILENCE. Keith had the great idea (well, it seemed good, at the time) of plugging into a computer UPS/surge protector, but we didn't realize it's circuit breaker was no match for even a cranked 200-watt power amplifier. Hardly anyone noticed, but the DP-01 does NOT auto-save- so the whole file was lost.

But at least the primary purpose- outside sound- went well.

I was originally nervous about using only one condenser, and not sure if the supplemental dynamics would help, but from all reports, the SATB balance was quite good.

If I had it to do over again, IN THAT SAME SPACE, I would go with only one condenser. If I had more room, or if I could hang choir condenser mics from the ceiling, I would certainly go with two con's.

Thanks, everyone, for the advise. You were all a great help.
 
Oh, I forgot to mention- we did not get to do a sound check. Things went well, anyway.
 
Hey - Good work! That's a lot juggling in the air at once. I'm coming up on my concerts in May and just took delivery of some mini XLR plugs to replace a couple of cables that will let me use my boundary mics. These will sit on small shelves down at the feet right and left of the chorus, on top of a couple of pieces of foam dampening to eliminate footfall booms. That and a twin SDC set up as you had it should (I hope) do the job. I'm looking at a big mutha boom in the corner of my office that should extend up about 10' or so.

But there will be one hell of a lot of moving parts in this little circus!:eek::D
 
Thanks for checking in, Treeline. One point- we did not use any small diaphram condensers- only one I have access to has very weak bass. AT 4033 is, I believe, considered a Large diaphram condenser, and SM58's are, of course, dynamics.

Boundry mics would have been nice- "choir" (SDC's?) would have, too.
 
Got a pair like these suckers... I sit each on a little shelf and they do pretty well.

at871r.jpg
at871r.jpg
 
I would try to use a condenser on the piano if possible. An sm57 isn't an ideal piano mic by a long stretch.
 
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