Help me produce my band's album!!!! YAY!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter jrhager84
  • Start date Start date
J

jrhager84

expert newb
I'm a newbie when it comes to the intricacies of recording, and would like to formally ask all of you to assist me with this project (input as well as help with hardware). I'll get some tracks up as soon as they're recorded (starting recording on Tuesday) Thanks guys!!!

-Joel
 
in all honesty, if you are a n00b at this, maybe you should let someone else "produce" (and by produce I think you mean engineer) your band's album, and practice on smaller, less important things until you get your engineering chops up.
 
With no $$$, I got nothin' else to do... I can get AWESOME dry tracks, it's just the mixing/mastering/authoring/etc. that's the problem.

If anything, I can track everything, and then have people (hopefully some people on here) help give advice mixing/mastering. It's kind of a way for me to get my feet wet using tools (physical and virtual) to aquire a desired sound. I'm not expecting it to be easy, but we've recorded at 2 different places, and I've made better shit then both. Seriously. It's that bad here in Idaho. The only place worth a damn is the Tonic Room, and they're a little over 500 a day.....not exactly budget-friendly. C'mon man........FAITH!!!

Thanks again!
 
jrhager84 said:
... we've recorded at 2 different places, and I've made better shit then both. Seriously. It's that bad here in Idaho.
Click to expand...


Ever consider a road trip?

:D

Seriously, there's nothing wrong with any of this. It's just the terminology you're using. It's not really an "album" you're producing, alright? It's an experiment. Sort of like class work or lerning assignments, but to think of it as anything more is merely deluding yourself. And no, that's not being thrown out there as a doubt or a challenge to you. It's merely informing you of the reality of your situation.


.
 
Last time I checked, if you paint the Mona Lisa, it's a painting. If you put paint in your mouth and spit it on a canvas, it's still a painting. Whether or not it's good, it's still an album... We're not expecting life-changing results, but something that people can bear listening to on their CD players would be a huge plus.

...and also, if you took the time to read my 2nd reply on this, we don't have enough $$$ to even go to a good studio HERE. How would we have enough money to road-trip to somewhere that has a decent studio?

I'd like to think I have at least enough good gear to get me by... I know I have weak areas in my setup (room sound being the biggest), but I think with a little hard work and dedication, I can get a good-sounding recording out of this. In all reality, the weakest area is me...so from a hardware perspective, it's all decent. Why can't anyone be positive??? LOL
 
your probably better off than i am. I'm stuck with a crappy version of ableton live lite. a 12 channel mixer. 1 large diaphragm condenser, and whatever music comes from my guitar or mouth.

and if i can do it,

you can too. just do some research (these forums help ALOT) and look for tips on mixing and mastering.
 
the reason nobody here is positive is because they've all been there and know better. :eek: you are about to embark on a long, long journey...... that will last you probably a decade and thousands of dollars more than you ever would have spent if you saved up to go to a studio. at least rent the 500/day studio for one day to mix and master it.
 
Well, just for the record, I said I was a newb at the "intricacies" of mixing and mastering... I had done live sound for 3 years, and learned a lot about gain staging, EQ and such...but I'd never touched digital or recorded anything, as well as dealing with patchbays and stuff. I learned with faders and knobs, not settings and such... I'm not COMPLETELY retarded when it comes to this stuff. I've also heard a lot of good stuff come from home recordings. Also, just so you guys know I'm not trying to record gold with a berry mixer and a radio shack mic:

Software
DAW: Cubase 4 Producer Edition
Mastering (if need be): Wavelab 5
monitored with Yamaha HS80m mixing monitors and beyerdynamic headphones

Rack Equipment:
BBE 882i sonic maximizer
dbx 166xl stereo compressor
presonus firestudio
neutrik 48pt patchbay

Equipment/instruments to be recorded:

Korg Triton Extreme Edition 88key
Gibson SG Guitar
Crate blue voodoo 150w tube head w/ 4x12 halfstack vintage 30's edition
Charvel Custom bass
Carvin 1200w head and Laney 4x10 and 1x15 combo
Tama Superstar Custom drums with Evans EC2 heads and EMAD BD head
Zildjian K & A custom cymbals

Mics:
2 sm81 mics
Sennheiser e604 tom mics
sm 57
beta 57
beta 52a
beta 58
Sterling Audio ST55 vocal mic
sE reflexion filter for vocals
Auralex roominator kit w/ basstraps and diffusers

The list may not be complete, but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Also, I'm not expecting this to go platinum or anything, but I do think I could at least get a PASSABLE sound (otherwise I'm going to shoot myself). I'm just trying to kill 2 birds with one stone.

1. Learn and expand my knowledge by doing

2. Create an album that's good enough to sell and give out for exposure

As long as those two things are met, I'm all good.

P.S. Our final mix WILL see a mastering house.
 
jrhager84 said:
Last time I checked, if you paint the Mona Lisa, it's a painting. If you put paint in your mouth and spit it on a canvas, it's still a painting. Whether or not it's good, it's still an album... We're not expecting life-changing results, but something that people can bear listening to on their CD players would be a huge plus.

...and also, if you took the time to read my 2nd reply on this, we don't have enough $$$ to even go to a good studio HERE. How would we have enough money to road-trip to somewhere that has a decent studio?

Why can't anyone be positive??? LOL
Click to expand...
Listen to what FALKEN said. He hit the nail on the head.

You'll find too that on your journey you will run into roadblocks and pitfalls here named chessrock. Take them with a grain of salt and learn from them, he means well. His jestures are a great indicator of your progress and will serve as a reminder there is only one God. :D
 
Good luck, but if you can't get passable sound, please don't kill yourself. It doesn't mean that you suck as a person. It just means you are inexperienced, and/or have the wrong tools, despite what "live sound" experience you might have.

Here's a good one for you. PLEASE tell me why, when a live sound guy puts up a mic (say a snare mic for example), no matter HOW BAD it sounds, he will continue to turn the eq knobs for up to 10 minutes while the drummer is "soundchecking", but NEVER in my LIFE have I ever seen the "Live Sound" guy get up and move the mike? :D
 
My live sound experience is unrelated to music, as I recorded TV spots and functions...which is where my lack of knowledge in that area stems from. I completely understand what you guys are trying to say. I'm not trying to make an absolutely life-changing album, but you guys really don't think I can make something that's decent? I absolutely KNOW I can track it all...so if anything, I can pay to have it mixed and mastered. I'd like to start off tackling it all, but if I can't do it, I'll find other ways.
 
jrhager84 said:
I had done live sound for 3 years, and learned a lot about gain staging, EQ and such...but I'd never touched digital or recorded anything ...
Click to expand...

We talked about this very subject recently, and I came up with a sequenced phase of recording development. And right now, you're in what I call the "denial" phase ...

http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=2715653#post2715653


1. Learn and expand my knowledge by doing
Click to expand...

Very realistic expectation.

2. Create an album that's good enough to sell and give out for exposure ...
Click to expand...

Not a realistic expectation. Using your Mona Lisa example ... right now, you're just spitting paint out of your mouth. :D Yes, you can call it an album if you want, but if your plan is to sell it for money, then I'm afraid you're just not there yet. If you want to spit paint on a piece of paper and try to sell it, go ahead, but don't get your hopes up.

And sending it to a mastering house? Why on God's green earth would you spend actual money to have someone try and spit-shine ... what you didn't even put enough of a priority on to have done competently in the first place? Complete waste of money.

.
 
I'm severely biting my lip on this one, but if that's what you think, I'll respect it. I certainly don't like being made out to be in denial. I know my recordings aren't going to sound that great. I understand that. You also have to take into account that people who see you as an "up and coming band" aren't going to burn you at the stake for not having multi-million dollar recordings... I didn't say I was going to sell them for 13.99 a piece. We're talking 1-2 dollars... I mean jeez...... I think people are assuming WAY too much. If you need clarification, by all means ask me. I'd be happy to clear the air.

My expectations:

Create a CD that doesn't make peoples' ears bleed when listened to

Something that moreover showcases the band's talent, and not my engineering talent (or lack thereof)

A CD to give to reps for an idea of what we sound like. I always use disclaimers in those circumstances

A tangible study piece to examine where my weak areas are.

I'm not saying I'm an expert, or even that the recordings will be perfect, but I do think I'll be able to get at least non-lethal recordings that people won't turn and run the other way when listened to. Make sense?

I know a guy that can master these for pennies (it won't be awesome, but I'm damned sure it'd be better than what I could do). I'm not spending XXX money on mastering. I'm just aquiring gear, building a studio, and learning (with my band as the guinea pig).
 
jrhager84 said:
DAW: Cubase 4 Producer Edition
Mastering (if need be): Wavelab 5
Click to expand...

Lemme get this right. You've never touched digital or recorded anything, you have no money, and are you not going to master your album yourself.

And yet, you spent (and I use the term loosely) over a grand on software, including a version of Wavelab that was superseded over a year ago (and which did not require a dongle, but WL6 does), and a version of Cubase that does not exist. There is a Cubase 4 Studio, and a Cakewalk Sonar 4 Producer Edition (two versions old), but there is no Cubase 4 Producer Edition.

So, maybe the studios in your town happen to charge money because they have to pay for their software?
 
For some reason I always confuse Cakewalk and Cubase names. The studio edition is the trimmed down version. I have the full Cubase 4. The reason why I spent this money on the software/hardware is because it's an investment. It's always going to be there, and it has the opportunity to either a.) be sold and get some return back or b.) gains value as time goes on (i.e. Fairchilds etc.) You spend 6 grand on recording an album and you have just that: an album. Nothing more nothing less. There's only a slim chance you'd ever get 6 grand back...Ever heard of this saying?

Catch a man a fish, feed him for a day.

Teach a man to fish, feed him for life.

To mshilarious:
I also don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm lying, or that I'm using pirated software. You really shouldn't have opened your mouth, because you will now see that I am in fact NOT lying:

I'm going to post a pic of MySteinberg page, showing my Cubase 4 key (which I will white out for obvious reasons. You will then apologize for even THINKING that I use pirated software, and all will be well...

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/ddretard/pwnd-1.jpg

As far as Wavelab 5 goes, I have the trial installation from ages ago. That's why "if need be" I'll install it and use the trial. Please think before you speak next time....k? If I do well enough I'd purchase Wavelab 6.

Next time ask questions before going off on some assumption... I HATE pirated software users, so the fact that someone would accuse me of such a thing insults me beyond comprehension.

If you'd like any further proof that I do indeed OWN a copy of Cubase 4, please let me know. It's been a pleasure (and I use that term loosely:D). Tootles!
 
Well then I offer my apologies. We see a lot of posts here that start "I just got Waves Diamond bundle how do I use a microphone?". I should not have been so quick to assume you were of that sort.

Althought you did waste a lot of money on the full edition of Cubase 4 when you could have done well with the SE version, or even used some of the freeware programs while you figured out what you are doing, and whether or not you can even get acceptable results to your standards.

The full version of Cubase is a massive program with scads of functions. It could well take you a year to learn how to fully use it. True, you don't need all those functions to record, but then you didn't need to pay for them, either.

Regarding WL6, for your purposes it would be a glorified CD burner, especially if you already have the full version of Cubase.

The first thing you should do is start treating this like a business IF you want a commercial grade product. I use WL5 every day in my business; I haven't upgraded to WL6 (even though I'd really like to) because the cost/benefit isn't there right now. You simply can't go dropping $1K willy-nilly on software and expect that to be a panacea. That's fine for a hobby, and it's a fun hobby, but hobbies have a nasty way of consuming lots of cash.

The next thing you will shortly discover is that most of the canned Steinberg plugs aren't that great, then you are looking at buying a Waves package or better yet, a couple of UADs . . . there are freeware plugs that are well-regarded; do a search here and start saving your money before it's all gone and you still don't have a CD finished . . .

I do not believe you are likely to succeed or fail. I think you will fall in between. I do not know if you will be happy with that or not. But there is really little advice anyone here can give beyond . . . post a mix in the MP3 clinic.
 
I can absolutely agree with you on that. I understand that making an incredible product is very unlikely. I also know that Cubase 4 was a big purchase. I sold some possessions and had a wad of money (about 5k) to spend. I personally acknowledge my inability to save money, so I invested it in what I thought were the most essential buys. Am I a master of them? Nope. I do, however, spend hours a day just listening to commercial CD's, and then manipulating them, purposefully over EQ'ing them, and using effects that are too much. Then I slowly start to remove them, until I notice where the "effect" sounds good. By sounds good, I mean you don't notice it's there, but you notice when it's gone. I'm a very obsessive person, so I literally think about this stuff all day long. I've also got the Mixing and Recording engineers handbooks by Bobby Owsinski. I've been reading them for months, and continue to learn things from those books. I've made things that to me seem bearable (I also make dance music and such), so I don't see why recording some songs should be such a hard task. Keep in mind by recording I mean getting decent sounds on a track that don't make people contemplate suicide. I'm not insinuating that I'm going to "master" anything, or that it will be anything NEAR what you'd get at a nice big studio, but I would like a nice reference point to use when learning this gear. As soon as I get some tracks up and going, I'll post mp3's in the clinic so you guys can have a listen. All tracks up will be "rough", but you guys already knew that! :cool:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top