Help: low volume with USB Interface

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lcuddy

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So I currently have a Focusrite 6i6 USB interface which I'm trying to use with Mixcraft 6.0 (my DAW of choice). Although Mixcraft is reading all the channels on the interface, the signal from the interface is very low. For example, I have to turn my bass up all the way and the gain on the interface up all the way to get a decent volume level, though the sound quality is great.

On the other hand, if I connect my Behringer mixer directly to the line in on my computer, the volume level is perfect but the sound quality suffers.

I also recently tried a Motu Ultralite interface with the same results as my current Focusrite: low volume for all instruments. I've tried tweaking different settings in Mixcraft, hooking the USB to different ports (I have 3 USB hubs on my computer), and I've even tried using my Mac Book Air with the Focusrite (using their provided DAW). No luck. Same low volume.

I just can't seem to get adequate volume via USB. Any advice? Is there some setting maybe I'm overlooking? Admittedly, I'm new to audio interfaces...

P.S. I contacted a Mixcraft agent and he said that having to tweak volume levels is normal. Maybe so but I still should have to turn everything all the way up to get a decent signal...
 
You need to describe your levels in objective terms such as dBFS. Words like "low" and "adequate" don't have any reliable meaning.

It's normal and correct during the recording and mixing process to have levels that are much lower than a finished commercial recording. Your recording levels should average around -18dBFS and peak well below 0dBFS. Turn up you monitors as needed to compensate.
 
Thanks the for the comment soundguy. I appreciate the request for precision. After messing around with my equipment for the past day or so, however, I've found that I can tweak my hardware and software to get a good, clean signal. It just took some tweaking.

One of my problems is that I'm not accustomed to seeing audio outputs as things that can be diverted in so many directions. I'm used to having a line in, that's it. It would be nice to see a very basic, and good, overview of configuring DAWs and audio interfaces for ideal sound quality. But then, that depends on my computer too, doesn't it? Would it be better to just go with one of those stand alone mixers, as one of my musician friends suggested?

But still, I'm (finally) pretty happy with my current setup.
 
Bouldersoundguy just said everything you need to know really. -18dBFS (what you see in DAW meters) is the close equivalent to 0dB. You are not looking to peak the meters like you would with analog gear. Turn up your monitors volume or up the master fader to get more volume. Track input levels are not the place to do this.

Whether a stand alone recorder would be good for you is well, up to you.
 
Thanks for the reply Jimmy. I should have been more specific. It's recording volume I'm worried about (in my DAW), which turning up monitors or master fader volume would not help me with. However, I think I found the missing link in my setup. I hooked up my small Behringer mixer as an input to my interface. This gives me way more volume all around, and more control over it, including recording volume. And the recordings still have decent quality as far as I can tell.

Speaking of monitors though, I just got some new ones and have a question about which cables to use. I'll search through old posts for the answer and if I don't find it I'll start a new thread.
 
Icuddy, I will bet you a spare usb lead that you are using W7?

This OS sees usb audio devices as "microphones" and in the normal course of events gives them far too MUCH gain.
It would seem that somehow the levels have been drastically reduced in the sound setup area, you need to dig quite deep into the W7 sound system and pull the levels up..A bit! Don't go mad!

You can check the AI because I do not know of any that do not have at least a LED showing "normal" input? If this is blinking with the input controls set very roughly 12'o'clock with a bass going in you are right. This SHOULD reflect in a level somewhere near -18dBFS in Mixcraft. (don't know Mixcraft but you can use Audacity as a level check).
I am going to see what speccs I can find for your AI.

Well! Beggar me! I have found an interface that does not seem to have any kind of input level indication on the hardware! Tightarsed or what? I mean how much does an SM LED and chip cost?
Dave.
 
I just had a quick look at the website...

It seems that there are lighted "rings" around the two gain control knobs that light green for signal present, and red for clipping, the website says that the inputs are switchable for mic/line/instrument levels, this is done using the mix control software panel.

I would try plugging the bass directly into the front input 1, then using the mix control panel set that input for instrument level, then try recording again.

When the inst lights are not on, the front 1/4" inputs are set to receive line level signals.
 
Last edited:
Strryder said:
I just had a quick look at the website...

It seems that there are lighted "rings" around the two gain control knobs that light green for signal present, and red for clipping, the website says that the inputs are switchable for mic/line/instrument levels, this is done on the mix control software panel.

I would try plugging the bass directly into the front input 1, then using the mix control panel set that input for instrument level, then try recording again.
Click to expand...

Ah yes! I remember seeing a brief vid' once.
Ok so, if the OP can get his bass to just under clipping he has more than enough level going into the converters and the lack (if indeed there is a practical lack) of record level must be due to computer settings. Unless there is some deep software problem with the AI?

Dave.
 
If the op is plugging his bass in and not setting the input to instrument, then he's going into a line level input, that alone would explain the low recording level no?

He may even be plugging his bass into one of the 1/4 " line level inputs on the back that has no gain control at all.
 
Strryder said:
If the op is plugging his bass in and not setting the input to instrument, then he's going into a line level input, that alone would explain the low recording level no?

He may even be plugging his bass into one of the 1/4 " line level inputs on the back that has no gain control at all.
Click to expand...
Indeed. But why would somebody plug an instrument into other than an "instrument" input if it were provided?

Dave.
 
Thanks for the replies folks. But some of you are not giving me enough credit. I tried many different things, including messing with the instrument setting and plugging the bass directly into input 1. I nevertheless appreciate the help.

But yes I do have W7. ecc83, when you say to "dig deep" into my computer's sound system, what do you mean specifically? I definitely went into the sound card and tried different configurations, and it doesn't indicate that it's reading the 6i6 USB as a microphone. The general sound is all the way up. Is this what you're referring to? Or something else? Is there another way to mess with the audio on the computer end that I'm not seeing? I too feel that it's likely to be computer settings.

However, as I noted, when I hook my mixer up as an input to the 6i6, I can get plenty of volume, and the recording quality doesn't seem to be sacrificed. Though maybe I'm missing something...
 
lcuddy said:
Thanks for the replies folks. But some of you are not giving me enough credit. I tried many different things, including messing with the instrument setting and plugging the bass directly into input 1. I nevertheless appreciate the help.

But yes I do have W7. ecc83, when you say to "dig deep" into my computer's sound system, what do you mean specifically? I definitely went into the sound card and tried different configurations, and it doesn't indicate that it's reading the 6i6 USB as a microphone. The general sound is all the way up. Is this what you're referring to? Or something else? Is there another way to mess with the audio on the computer end that I'm not seeing? I too feel that it's likely to be computer settings.

However, as I noted, when I hook my mixer up as an input to the 6i6, I can get plenty of volume, and the recording quality doesn't seem to be sacrificed. Though maybe I'm missing something...
Click to expand...

"Dig deep" means>>>Start>Control Panel>Hardware and Sound>Manage Audio Devices>recording>Device>Levels...My apologies if you have already done this.

I have just connected my NI KA6 to my HP i3 laptop and gone thru the above kerfuffle and all levels were set to 100% which seems to be right for the KA6 but other usb audio devices caused problems at this setting.

I then plugged in a Strat and maxed the knobs and set the KA6 to 3'o'clock. My feeble attempts at picked Bach gave me -20 to -15dBFS peaks in Samplitude Silver, bang on the money! N.B. This resulted in the writing of very wee "waveforms" on the screen, average 3mm pk-pk and max about 4mm. The green signal LED was lit all the time on the interface. Bottom line? The KA6 does not have a staggering amount of gain on its high Z input but then my best Townsend'esque thrash could not drive it into overload. That's good engineering.

Plugging a bass into a mixer will of course give you more drive and for bass will probably not fork the tone that much but a sixer will suffer and probably become rather weak and dim into such a low impedance.

There is a review of the 6i6 (and the 2i2) in the current September issue of Sound on Sound. He does not mention the instrument input specifically but the reviewer, Paul White is a guitarist and would have surely tried it and reported anything amiss? He was in fact very impressed with the performance and value of both devices.

Dave.
 
Thanks ecc. Yup, I tried adjusting the levels in W7. I don't think it's the 6i6, especially since I had the same problem with a Motu Ultralite. If I plug my 6 string acoustic electric directly into the 6i6 and put the setting in Mixcontrol on high gain, then I get decent volume. So maybe I'll record just the 6 string and vocals directly through the 6i6, and record bass through the mixer into the interface. Also, when I hook my looper through the mixer into the interface, it sounds pretty good as far as I can tell.

The more I mess with my setup, the happier I get with it because I know I can find some way to do what I want to do, to record the way I want to record.
 
I believe I have the same issue with my Fireface 800 Audio Interface. Instrument (jack) input works fine, and produces a good audible signal. All XLR inputs, howerver, needs to be close to max before I can even get an audible signal from a SM57 mic. I have to turn the gain to max before I can hear speech at an ok level. I'm sorry I don't have db numbers and all that, but this is a case where you just know something is wrong. I mean, you should be able to at least hear vocals and acoustic guitar (steel strings, plectrum strummed) through a SM57, even if the gain is only at 50 %. It seems to be a rare problem, I haven't found many cases, let alone solutions, while searching through different forums.

I hope we'll get a solution one day, and I'll sure as hell post one if I ever find it myself. Until then I'll just have to continue recording with the input gain set uncomfortably close to max, and even at max in some cases.
 
FredHealth said:
I believe I have the same issue with my Fireface 800 Audio Interface. Instrument (jack) input works fine, and produces a good audible signal. All XLR inputs, howerver, needs to be close to max before I can even get an audible signal from a SM57 mic. I have to turn the gain to max before I can hear speech at an ok level. I'm sorry I don't have db numbers and all that, but this is a case where you just know something is wrong. I mean, you should be able to at least hear vocals and acoustic guitar (steel strings, plectrum strummed) through a SM57, even if the gain is only at 50 %. It seems to be a rare problem, I haven't found many cases, let alone solutions, while searching through different forums.

I hope we'll get a solution one day, and I'll sure as hell post one if I ever find it myself. Until then I'll just have to continue recording with the input gain set uncomfortably close to max, and even at max in some cases.
Click to expand...

Hi Fred.
I have just downloaded the manual for the FF800. Quite a beast!

First off the mic amps seem to have a maximum gain of 60dB which is about the maximum you find in AIs. My NI KA6 (of which more later) has I think 55dB and my ZED10 mixer a shade over 60dB.

Next, have you investigated/setup as per pps 36/37 and read p67? You say you can't give any "dB figures" why? Then you mention the gain control at "50%", what does that mean? Mechanical centre? If so that means jack because ALL gain controls are very non-linear in their rotation-v-gain, most of it being stuffed into the last few degrees.

The KA6: To get acoustic guitar one foot from a 57 I have to have the gain flat out and even then only get readings in my software (Samplitude) of -20dBFS or so. But! Because the KA6 has such low noise mic amps this does not matter and the subsequent (24bits of course!) recording can be pulled up in level anytime it needs be.

Even the ZED10 into a 2496 sound card needs to be pretty close to max gain but again the low noise means this is not a problem.

It must be remembered that unless you are gobbing on it or have it practically touching the strings, a 57/58 is only putting out MICRO volts! This applies to all passive dynamics to a large extent but the old Shures are among the least sensitive around.

Dave.
 
Im skeptical of the usb interface spec's stating 60db etc... and then it seems its a common issue across many brands to get the volume up. The fact the mixers or outboard preamps that have the same 60db spec are much louder and coming in the interfaces LINE IN, is probably the answer.

One of my interfaces has a 20db preamp, and it can be digitally made loud enough(using sliders and plugs for volume), but the LINE IN and a Outboard pre is simple and gets the volume easier.

So other than low mic output, what else would be the difference in volume between the interface mic pre and the outboard mic pre+line in?? according to specs usually all are 60db...or are the interface specs not true?
 
CoolCat said:
Im skeptical of the usb interface spec's stating 60db etc... and then it seems its a common issue across many brands to get the volume up. The fact the mixers or outboard preamps that have the same 60db spec are much louder and coming in the interfaces LINE IN, is probably the answer.

One of my interfaces has a 20db preamp, and it can be digitally made loud enough(using sliders and plugs for volume), but the LINE IN and a Outboard pre is simple and gets the volume easier.

So other than low mic output, what else would be the difference in volume between the interface mic pre and the outboard mic pre+line in?? according to specs usually all are 60db...or are the interface specs not true?
Click to expand...

You want TRUE specifications??!! Get outa here!
The basic problem with specifications is that we never, well rarely know how they are measured. Gain figure for an AI is good example of the problem.

Take a "pro" mic pre amp. We can reasonably say, even unstated by the makers, that all figures are reff'ed to +4dBu (1.22V rms) at the output. Thus, if the total gain is stated as 60dB we know than an input of 1.22mV will produce +4dBu at the output and that is oddly enough very near the rated sensitivity of a 57! N.B. however, that said level is produced by the mic at one Pa, about 90dBSPL and that is pretty loud! Far louder for instance than you would have the telly for Corrie! (Big Bang T for the colonials) .

But! The "output" of an AI is inside the PC! So what level is that 60dB supposed to produce? T.H.E.Y. N.E.V.E.R. F.E.K.K.I.N'. T.E.L.L. U.S!!....Oh! One might assume 0dBFS? Nah, neg 18? Dunno. All I know is I have used 3 interfaces in the last 4 years and none of them were what you could call "lively" in mic gain terms. Worst was a Tascam 122/144 next worse an M-Audio fast track pro and best, but not mind blowing, the KA6 the latter however had the distinction of being by far the quietest of the bunch.

But have a little sympathy. AIs have only one gain pot. A pre amp usually gain plus an output pot with an additional 10, often 20dB of gain. Mixers have gain + 10dB on the channel control + another 10 on the master out.

Dave.
 
interesting, never thought of internal gain "specs" or whatever they really are. Subjective Marginal Measurement Numbers..ahah SMMN...

I have 60db gain per my SMMN data. lol
 
ecc83 said:
You want TRUE specifications??!! Get outa here!
The basic problem with specifications is that we never, well rarely know how they are measured. Gain figure for an AI is good example of the problem.

Take a "pro" mic pre amp. We can reasonably say, even unstated by the makers, that all figures are reff'ed to +4dBu (1.22V rms) at the output. Thus, if the total gain is stated as 60dB we know than an input of 1.22mV will produce +4dBu at the output and that is oddly enough very near the rated sensitivity of a 57! N.B. however, that said level is produced by the mic at one Pa, about 90dBSPL and that is pretty loud! Far louder for instance than you would have the telly for Corrie! (Big Bang T for the colonials) .

But! The "output" of an AI is inside the PC! So what level is that 60dB supposed to produce? T.H.E.Y. N.E.V.E.R. F.E.K.K.I.N'. T.E.L.L. U.S!!....Oh! One might assume 0dBFS? Nah, neg 18? Dunno. All I know is I have used 3 interfaces in the last 4 years and none of them were what you could call "lively" in mic gain terms. Worst was a Tascam 122/144 next worse an M-Audio fast track pro and best, but not mind blowing, the KA6 the latter however had the distinction of being by far the quietest of the bunch.

But have a little sympathy. AIs have only one gain pot. A pre amp usually gain plus an output pot with an additional 10, often 20dB of gain. Mixers have gain + 10dB on the channel control + another 10 on the master out.

Dave.
Click to expand...
Well, you seemed to have started on the right track, then got a bit confused.

What level is the 60db of gain supposed to produce? 60db more than whatever came in, of course! This assumes that the input signal gained up 60db doesn't run the pre out of headroom. Essentially you're asking me for the product of two numbers, but only giving us one. What does X * 20 log 60 equal? A line, that's what.

The specs always tell you the nominal input level, and they usually tell you the max input level. You can generally assume that that max input (whether expressed in V or dbu or whatever) will translate to 0dbf.
 
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