HELP! Getting stardted in the world of Home Recording

[ArthurEvans]

I came with the idea about 4 years ago, to create my home studio for me and friends to record our songs and some video covers.
Some weeks ago I started reading tutorials, watching videos, reading reviews and asking friends about what I need just to record my drums only. It's a big drum set and after all this researching process and Q/A sessions, I build this configuration to give the best sound to my drums with a nice equipment that I can afford. I bought a Tascam US-1800 and I was thinking to connect the bass drum, main snare top, main snare bottom, secondary snare top, overhead 1, overhead 2 and tom 3(which is my main tom) to the Focusrite OctoPre MKII Dynamics, then from the OctoPre to the 8 XLR channels in front of the Tascam. Then connecting tom 1, tom 2, tom 4 and tom 5 to a Samson S-com 4 (I know its a preamp for live vocals but after asking some people, they told me it can be usefull for toms and I can get it for $50) and then from the S-com 4 to the 4 TRS input channels on the back of the tascam.
Then using one of the front TRS input to connect the secondary snare bottom, and then connecting my 3 octobans to a small mixer, like samson MDR 6, and then the mixer to the last front TRS input. The mics I'll be using are the ones from samson, which is a pack that I can get for about $500 that came with mics for bassdrum, 5 toms, hat, 4 snare and overheads, with their booms and cables (it's an offer from a local shop that is going out of the bussiness hehe) using a M-Audio AV40 as monitors and a MacBook Pro i7 with 8g ram.

My questions are:
-The preamps and compressors are really nescesary? because some people told me that there's no need of them because they said that you can add it in digital but its not the same(just like computer guitar effects), and I heard some of their recordings, and I think that their sound needs something more.

-It's really usefull those $150 for the dynamics on the Focusrite OctoPre MKII?
-What software it's the best for what I want? Logic? Cubase? ProTools?
What I want to do with my HomeStudio is record some Video Covers and maybe the drumtracks for my band and other guys

Here is a chart that explain better that I said above


Remember Im new in the world of home recording

 

[guitaristic]

Ok, so the number of mics and hardware is a bit boggling since I just woke up about an hour ago, but the Focusrite OctoPre MKII is overkill. It might give it a better sound, but you would basically be running a preamp (the Focusrite) into the Tascam 1800's preamps. That could be a bit hectic.

That being said, you could substitute the Focusrite for the Samson preamp...if you've already bought the focusrite. If not, then I'd just stick with the Samson.

Also, the only bad thing about running a mixer into an interface is that the levels of the instruments coming through the mixer (as well as EQ and any other effects) are pretty much set. You can't adjust them individually once they're "in the system".

 

[miroslav]

Remember Im new in the world of home recording

Since you're new to the world of recording...it's good that you chose a simple/easy setup for your first time out.



I'm kidding.
Man, do you really think you need all those mics and all those inputs right from the start?

Why not just use the Tascam US-1800 and 8 mics to start....get familar with things (you may even find that some of the best sounding drum kits were record with as few as 3-4 mics).

If you feel the need to have them many mics/sources all connected at the same time....you can always add the other stuff later.

 

[mjbphotos]

As you seem to be brand new to home recording, you are going to be overwhelmed by using that many mics for your drum tracks. I'd recommend starting with 5 mics: snare, hi-hat, kick and 2 overheads.
That Samson mic kit may seem like a good deal, but unsure what it actually is. Samson has an 8-mic kit, $350 new at Sweetwater. With it you only need two boom stands for the overheards, and a stand for the hi-hat mic, plus cables (You can get short cables very cheap on ebay or amazon, this 'going out of business' place may be giving you cheapies.

 

[ArthurEvans]

When I say Im new, I mean that its the first time that I have my own equip, I've been participating in a lot of recs since the last 2 years and learned a few things in logic and garage band. I was considering running those mics through the octopre because those are the main part of my drumset, and a friend who owns a professional studio told me to because he said that octopre's preamps are far better than the tascam's and much better with dynamic compression. Im not getting all the stuff by once.
I already have the tascam and the mac, in 2 weeks I'll get the mics and the scom 4. Maybe for january the monitors and in march-april the focusrite and the lil mixer.
Of course I did know that when I run the octobans through the mixer, it will be just in 1 track on the computer, but as they always recieve the same treatment, I thought it wouldn't be a big problem.
So, I should discard the focusrite? and get another scom? I just want to get a really good sound from my snare, bassdrum and cymbals
thanks

 

[RAMI]

Man, do you really think you need all those mics and all those inputs right from the start?

No kidding. Not even "from the start". Main snare top, main snare bottom, secondary snare top, secondary snare bottom????? Honestly, that's ridiculous.

I would go 1 snare, 1 kik, 2 overheads, and if you want to mic your toms, fine. What's with the drawing of Dealey Plaza.

 

[miroslav]

....a friend who owns a professional studio told me to because he said that octopre's preamps are far better than the tascam's and much better with dynamic compression...

Doing it that way you are STILL using the TASCAM's mic pres....basically you would be running 8 mics through two sets of preamps.

Also...while the Octapre may be a bit better than the TASCAM pres, it's not going to be that noticable IMO, so you're just adding another piece for few gains.

 

[miroslav]

... secondary snare bottom?????

You're just jealous you don't have one....

 

[RAMI]

You're just jealous you don't have one....

No, I'm jealous because I've never even bothered with a MAIN snare bottom.

 

[miroslav]

No, I'm jealous because I've never even bothered with a MAIN snare bottom.

Yeah...I can see the rare occasion when you must get more of the "snares"...etc....but I never saw a great need for bottom mics, never mind secondary bottom mics.

Arthur....

Just hooking all that stuff up and getting it tuned with the room, etc...will be a major learning curve, but then, with ALL THOSE MICS, you will then have an even bigger learning curve getting it sorted out and properly balanced/mixed in the DAW.

How's that saying go....aim small, miss small.
You can always expand as you get better and more comfortable.

 

[RAMI]

You can always expand as you get better and more comfortable.

...and just to be clear.....nobody's talking down to you because you're just starting out. Your proposed set up isn't necessary even for someone who has been doing this for years. Like Miro said, a bottom snare mic is rarely used, let alone 2 bottom snare mics. I'll go out on a limb and say that's pretty much never used. Same with a secondary top snare mic. Weather you're starting out or have been doing this for years, the more mics you have, the more potential phase cancellation/issues you'll have. An experienced engineer can deal with those, a beginner will go nuts trying to deal with them.

but as they always recieve the same treatment, I thought it wouldn't be a big problem.

What are you referring to? Nothing really recieves the same treatment. You don't treat your kik the way you do your overheads, for example. Not only will the levels be sifferent for everything, but so will the EQ'ing, effects, compression, etc.....

Just trying to help man.

 

[guitaristic]

When I say Im new, I mean that its the first time that I have my own equip, I've been participating in a lot of recs since the last 2 years and learned a few things in logic and garage band. I was considering running those mics through the octopre because those are the main part of my drumset, and a friend who owns a professional studio told me to because he said that octopre's preamps are far better than the tascam's and much better with dynamic compression. Im not getting all the stuff by once.
I already have the tascam and the mac, in 2 weeks I'll get the mics and the scom 4. Maybe for january the monitors and in march-april the focusrite and the lil mixer.
Of course I did know that when I run the octobans through the mixer, it will be just in 1 track on the computer, but as they always recieve the same treatment, I thought it wouldn't be a big problem.
So, I should discard the focusrite? and get another scom? I just want to get a really good sound from my snare, bassdrum and cymbals
thanks

Yeah I would think the Octopre's preamps would be better than the Tascam's, but I was just recommending not having the Octopre in that signal chain because it might give you a headache. About the octobans and the mixer, I don't know. You could always try it out and nail it but it's just nice having freedom to edit any track.

If you really just want to get a good kick/snare/cymbal sound then you should do like RAMI suggested and stick with a 4 mic set-up right now. Trust me, there will be PLENTY to learn just with those 4 mics and your kit Then you can gradually add in other mics later on!

 

[gecko zzed]

I agree with the other posters.

If you are venturing into this area, keep it as simple and straight forward as you can to start with. A big kit doesn't necessarily require a commensurately big set of mikes.

Use the minimum number that you can, go straight into the interface and let the mac do the work for you afterwards.

Use whatever DAW you like; they all do pretty much the same things. I personally recommend Reaper.

 

[Chili]

Everyone knows I don't mic drums, but he does have a pretty big set. Will 2 overheads be enough for solid coverage?? Maybe he should have 3 or 4 overheads?? In the words of someone very wise, "Simpler is better".

I agree with the notion that using the octopre is overkill. I think Miro said correctly in that you aren't going to notice a big difference. Also, you don't want to go out of one mic pre and right into another mic pre. If you did use the octopre, you would plug into the line level inputs on your interface, not the mic pre's (XLR's).

 

[miroslav]

If you did use the octopre, you would plug into the line level inputs on your interface, not the mic pre's (XLR's).

His problem is that the TASCAM only has 4 line inputs....so he wants to go from the Octopre into the TASCAM's mic/preamp inputs...so he's going to have line level outputs going into mic level inputs, which just adds to the complexity of proper gain staging, and will most likely undo any benefit that the Octopre will have...instead of just going direct into the TASCAM.

 

[grimtraveller]

Yeah...I can see the rare occasion when you must get more of the "snares"...etc....but I never saw a great need for bottom mics, never mind secondary bottom mics.

Like Miro said, a bottom snare mic is rarely used

Reading Ken Scott's autobiography during the summer, I was truly surprized to find this statement in regard to the sound Ringo ended up with on the drums when he started engineering for the band;

[A third thing] was changing the position of the snare drum mic. Geoff [Emerick] had used it below the snare , while I preferred the sound of miking the top head instead.

Enlightening, if nothing else.

 

[miroslav]

I can see working with either top or bottom, and maybe Emerick just found a bottom position that really worked for him...but using both, or + 2 x both is going to be overkill.