HELP! dj live recording WITH THE PUBLIC REACTIONS

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pedro estrela
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Pedro estrela

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hello everyone, this is my first post...

I'm a DJ and i've tryed to record a live dance mix performance with the public reactions. The ideia is to have a hi-quality sound of the music played, but mixed with the public reactions (when the public sings parts of the songs they know, applause, etc.)

the event i'm talking about did take place in a very large circus tent, with a complete PA system.

to do this, i've placed a mono microphone in the middle of the tent, and mixed live the microphone sound with the main mixer sound in a second mixer, and the output was feeded to minidisc.

this way:

CD's->Main Mixer->PA->speakers->microphone on middle of tent
...................|______________________|
.............................................|
......................................second mixer
.............................................|
.............................................v
.......................................MINIDISC

i've made this setup to try to have a good quality sound from the main mixer, which the public was added in real-time.

well, it worked, but with a very poor "hollow" sound. the beat was not clear. i've attached a small sample of teh actual final recording quality. it's from a major hit some years ago, and you can compare the beat with the original one... this sounds terrible.

i believe that was wappened is that the public sound was too loud, and catched the loadspeakers beat, which is equal to the main mixer sound, BUT COME LATER. how much later? if the microphone was 10 meters from the loudspeakers, as the sound speed is constant at 333 meters/second, then it had a delay of 30ms, which causes this efect.

Also consider that the way the tent was, it caused another artiact on the beat: as the tent was very large, and the loudspeakers only on one side, it could be heard double beat: the real beat, and the sound reflection of the opposite wall, when it returned.

(i could also get a stereo mic, and record only the sound from the mic, but then quality was even poorer!)

so my question is: how can i record a perfect quality live recording?


PS: i'm thinking on another way (not tested yest): record both the main sound, and public sound on separate Minidiscs. then convert it the the computer, and use cooledit's multitrack feature to mixdown both takes, BUT manually resync that difference of 30ms, so that the beats were aligned.

PS2: another ideia that i'm having right now is to record the public is the low frequencies cut, to remove the bass there.

sorry for the long post,
Pedro Estrela
 

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A couple tips-

Use a mic with a more directional pattern and have it facing the crowd with it's back towards the speakers.

Use the delay based on distance.

Bass cut is a very good idea.

Multi tracks is a good idea.

Whatever you do it will probably sound crappy compared to the direct feed.
 
1) Use a mic with a more directional pattern and have it facing the crowd with it's back towards the speakers.
the original mic was hanged on the middle of the tent's ceiling. i agree that standing back to the speakers would improve, but the beat sound does return when it is reflected at the wall...

2) Bass cut is a very good idea.
agreed.

3) Use the delay based on distance.
i agree, but this raises another question that i did not fully explained on the post: there exists any portable device that delays the sound from the input to the output? if it exists, then after calibration (based on distance) it would be possible to perfectly syncronize the 2 sources for the realtime mixing: i would listen to both sources in a mixing table, regulating the delay device until both sounds are syncronished.

4) Multi tracks is a good idea.
using that, then i could later mixdown the both sources syncronised, and with the public one equalized, right?

5) Whatever you do it will probably sound crappy compared to the direct feed.
yes, i realize that, but i've heard dance music broadcasts that are simply PERFECT - great sound, clear crisp crown noises... You're almost there!
 
In regards to the mic- a more directional mic should give you less of the reflected sounds off the wall. To be honest if you are in halls that are that boomy I can't imagine it sounds that great out in the crowd. You guys probably need more speakers to fill in the hall and overpower those reflections. You should use delays on the fill in speakers the same as you would on a mic. Chances are the crowd recordings you have heard took place in halls where a better live sound was achieved.

Mic closer to the stage to minimize the reflections and cut down the delay time.

Any effects unit with a delay will work for the mic. Just set the effects mix to 100% wet. You will need a mic preamp to plug into before the delay.
 
> To be honest if you are in halls that are that boomy I can't
> imagine it sounds that great out in the crowd.
that's the point... at the moment it was very loud, and inside the tent full with 2000 people the reflections were less noticiable, so that overal the sound was great;

i beleive that is those 30 ms of delay that are present only on the live recording that were the major cause for spoiled the final live mixing with the crowd audience.

> Any effects unit with a delay will work for the mic.
> Just set the effects mix to 100% wet.
yes, is that kind of effects unit that i need; however i don't have/know any models that does that.
 
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