Heavy Metal/Hardcore Guitar Recording.

  • Thread starter Thread starter enferno
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enferno

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No, I'm not asking how to do it, no way am I going to start kicking the crap outta that dead horse again.

All I'm asking is for a little feedback, comments, or tips on this setup I have.



here's a link to a sample. Please let me know what you think (too harsh, not enough mid, too much bass, etc. etc.)

And please no bashing on heavy metal, chances are I've already heard your arguements and I don't whish to instigate a flame war.

P.S. Excuse the sloppy playing, I just recently wrote the song.
 
Ok, enferno, sounds pretty clean to me. No rumbling on the speakers here, didn't hurt my ears either. Tone is good, not too much of anything in my opinion. Maybe more bass, if you can do it and not get speaker rumble. And remember, just my opinion. (I love guitar).
Ed
 
Thanks dogman!

it still just doesn't sound right to me, but then again, I have been on the quest for the perfect guitar sound for far too long, and nothing sounds perfect to me :P
 
All right, here's my take on it. As I write this I'm A-Bing between your track and Killswitch Engage - Fixation on the Darkness along with some solo guitar stuff I have recorded (some metalcore, some tough guy hardcore). Also keep a couple things in mind, this is all my opinion & I'm not trying to be a cock if I come off as one, I'm just trying to give you my honest critical opinion. Also, I am listening to your track obviously minus drum & bass tracks so it's a little unfair but you still get the idea.

First things first I would say not only is the sound really thin but not in your face enough. Let me know what head/cab you used along with guitar, pickups, mic & any other useful information so maybe I can visualize better. Definately add more bass to the guitar, more drive or an EMG-81 in the bridge couldn't possibly hurt (try adding drive first). I would say that you should sit down & try to copy a guitar tone you really like first. I modeled a tone on my PODxt after Hatebreed's "Perserverance", my actual Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier (which wasn't too close because I play a VHT cab) along with other amps I have used in studios. Also fool around with mic positions. For the longest time my $2500 amp (Mesa/VHT) sounded terrible miked, then one day I found the sweet spot & now it's always there in the blink of an eye. Give me some more info on your setup & maybe I can give you more actual advice.
 
Alright my setup is something I've never heard or even seen before.

Let me start in the beginning of the chain

Guitar: Gibson SG Gothic with the stock pickups.

Amp: Roland Cube 60 watt amp, using the Modeled Rectifier setting.

Now, here is where it gets rather odd.
I've never been successful in getting a sound even close to as 'good' as that sample I posted by micing my amp, or any amp. Could be my shitty preamps (Just the ones on my Behringer MX 2004A) or something else that I am not forseeing. I've used SM 57's, 58's, and e609's. I can post a sample if you wish. It jus sounds like I am recording using the line out!

so, how I got that sample I posted, I ran the line out into my computer via Delta 1010lt, then threw it into Cubase.
I used a mild compression, then ran it into Guitar Rig. This is where I've gotten the closest to what I want it to sound like. I don't know if you've messed around with GUuitar Rig at all, but I used the basic head, and 2 different Cabs. This sounded only alright, so i panned it hard left. THen i duplicated the track, and all of it's effects, and added a 15 ms delay and panned this hard right.

I have tried a crap load of different mic positions, panning hard left, then doubling and panning that hard right, electronic double, or playing the rif twice.

Rather unorthodox I know, but it's the best I have acheived thusfar.

Thanks for your help!
 
Heavy metal = tube amp cranked and a 4x12 cabinet.

A Roland Cube amp can't do no metal. :p
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Heavy metal = tube amp cranked and a 4x12 cabinet.

A Roland Cube amp can't do no metal. :p
Click to expand...
Heavy metal = tube amp cranked and (2) 4x12 cabinets.

Short of that try adding more bass, and sweep the mids down a hair. You have plenty of good hi-end definition, but too much in the mids. The sound is to refined you need to dirty up a bit.

Save money, buy a Mesa Dual Rectifier or Marshall JCM800 (the 2 very best amps for your classic metal tones).
 
...and you can try messing with the compression. Try adding a harder compression, short attack, and longer release. Then mess w/ the threshold, for balance. You can get a more saturated tone this way. And consider at least a good tupe Preamp/processor.
 
Distorted guitar is already compressed to hell and back. Why would you want to make it even more lifeless than it is?????
 
Atterion said:
Save money, buy a Mesa Dual Rectifier or Marshall JCM800 (the 2 very best amps for your classic metal tones).
Click to expand...

I agree with that statement 200%. I thought that guitar tone sounded a bit like my Mesa but it's just really thin & blah. Honestly my friends & I have had everything from 2 channel single rectifier to (my) 2 channel dual, the 3 channel dual & the 3 channel triple. We've used 1 - 2x12 mesa cab, 2 - 2x12 mesa cabs & my Mesa 4x12 oversized (which takes the cake).

However, one thing I bet no one even realized with the song I posted a few weeks ago I used my Ibanez 7 string S through a JCM800 through a Mesa 4x12 with a tube screamer. The catch is, I was using my PODxt. It was actually modeled after a real guitar tone we got with an actual JCM900 & Mesa 4x12 with a 57 slapped on it. We just decided to play in standard B instead of drop C.

I would say either buy a real Dual Rectifier or JCM800, or honestly just invest in the PODxt, people mistake it for a real amp more often than you think!


To listen to the song I was just talking about, check it out below.
Absolute Truth - Tour Support
 
xbrianx said:
I agree with that statement 200%. I thought that guitar tone sounded a bit like my Mesa but it's just really thin & blah. Honestly my friends & I have had everything from 2 channel single rectifier to (my) 2 channel dual, the 3 channel dual & the 3 channel triple. We've used 1 - 2x12 mesa cab, 2 - 2x12 mesa cabs & my Mesa 4x12 oversized (which takes the cake).

However, one thing I bet no one even realized with the song I posted a few weeks ago I used my Ibanez 7 string S through a JCM800 through a Mesa 4x12 with a tube screamer. The catch is, I was using my PODxt. It was actually modeled after a real guitar tone we got with an actual JCM900 & Mesa 4x12 with a 57 slapped on it. We just decided to play in standard B instead of drop C.

I would say either buy a real Dual Rectifier or JCM800, or honestly just invest in the PODxt, people mistake it for a real amp more often than you think!


To listen to the song I was just talking about, check it out below.
Absolute Truth - Tour Support
Click to expand...

so for that song you were just using the PODxt for the guitar? no amps?
 
here is a new sample. thanks for all the help guys!



better?

any more tips?
 
hmmm. I've "heard" much to the contrary as to the 4X12 recording theory. I've never had time or the space (no control room) to a/b them, but I think I'll bust out the ol' 4x12, find that sweet spot, and a/b it (to the best of my limited abilities) against my single celestion, which is in a self contained ampeg vx120.

Good stuff, it's threads like this that make me start digging in this forum.
 
enferno said:
so for that song you were just using the PODxt for the guitar? no amps?
Click to expand...

Correct, no amp at all. however, I recorded the song originally with a real amp, then I modeled it on my PODxt about 6 months later because I wanted to go back & do the songs in a different tuning. So far, if I don't tell someone, they can't even tell. Usually all I hear is "sick guitar tone" or "the guitar tone is so fucking awesome" but never "HOLY SHIT! YOU USED A PODXT FOR THAT YOU TOOLSHED!"


Don't ask, don't tell :cool:
 
I think a Sennheiser e609 silver well placed on a high gain tube amp should be all that you need. My friend's hardcore band gets great tones from their modded Peavey 5150 and Peavey Rockmaster/Mesa 50:50 rack setups, miced with e609s I believe.

Also, heavy guitar isn't all about low end. You've got to have it there, yeah, but you can't have the low end just muddying everything up. Listen to something like an old Disembodied record. They tuned to A#, but when you listen to it, the guitars are still articulate without being muddy at all. You can even hear the bass underneath it, and you know thats some low frequencies right there. Try backing off on the low end some.

Also, are you just throwing a mic up in front of your amp and hoping that it sounds good? Try this: put on your monitoring headphones and go to wherever the guitar is. Make sure the headphones are at a level where you're hearing whats in the cans and not the sound of the actual guitar (you'll want some headphones with a lot of isolation for this). Have someone else play while you move the mic around. Try it in different distances relative to the center of the speaker, and also adjust the angle that it faces the speaker (putting it at about 45 degrees to the speaker can take a lot of edge off). After you've got the mic positioned where you think it sounds best, adjust some of the amp settings until it sounds exactly how you want it...dial in the EQ settings and play with the gain and level until you've got it sounding perfect through your headphones. It may sound less than perfect out in the room, but how you're hearing it in the headphones is likely to be pretty close to how it sounds recorded. Even with my meager equipment, I was amazed the first time I did this by the immense variation in sound that's possible to achieve.
 
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Look man, Im not a pro tech or anything, but i do know what i hear, it does sound very clear, but that does not sound like any modern guitar, if your going for the 80's thing, ( i heard the pick harmonics ) then i think your on track up the bass, then go through mids then to highs again, cant just tweek the Low without compensating.
 
Sounds a bit too grizly. That wil be from using a small amp that you arent getting the sound you want. And dont add any more bass to it, assuming you have eqd it after tracking. You cant tell how much bass you need till the bass guitar kik drum and everything else is tracked. You want the guitar and bass guitar to kinda merge. You really need to get a better amp. I would definetly go for a tube amp, maybe a 2x12 would be better as you can crank that more as it isnt as loud as a 4x12. Amps have a level where they sound best at and its usually pretty loud. But too loud and the sound will start to die. Try using a 57 and a 58 together close miced. One on each speaker and listen out for phasing problems as there are 2 mics. Then try another two mics (condensors) or just the one maybe, farther away maybe around a foot and a half. I would sound check the condensor first on its own to know where to point it to get the best tone then the 57 and 58 seperately. Then listen to them all together. You should get an in your face sound that also has depth and most importantly air. When mixing, mix the guitars on there own and get the right levels for each mic then bounce them to one track. You want to track the same guitar part twice though so you can pan them let and right maybe about 60 and 60. Make sure the mix down levels are the same for each recording of the guitar part to get a nice tonal balance left and right. Now you have your two tracks of three mics bounced to one track you can start mixing. To get right eq reverb etc only mix with one of the tracks and have it panned to the centre. Once you are happy with this you should set the other track exactly the same with eq etc as the first track. Now pan to 60 60 and you will be jamming if you have good mics, good amp, totally tight playing and no phasing problems. And one more thing you will have to line up the far mic with the close mics so they dont phase. zoom right in on the waves if you can and look for the peak of a on one of the close mics and match up the peak of the same wave on the far mic. Really watch out for phasing though as it can make your guitar sound really synthetic and fake. That should do it. Good luck. PM me if you get the tone you want. But you will need to use a bigger amp.
 
A new amp is out of the question, rather, out of the budget. Would it help any if i hooked my amp up to a 4x12 ext. cab?
 
I dont know heavy metal, but I think the sound needs BALLS. Low end grunt is what I think I need to hear
 
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