metaljoseph
Dedicated Member
How do metal bands like In Flames or Children of Bodem get their drums to sound so incredibly powerful? what tricks do they do?
Wireneck
New member
Triggered drums on all of the newer stuff. The older In Flames and possibly Bodom (not a fan of them) used acoustic drums but the trend in metal has shifted heavily to triggers/sound replacement since those albums came out.
Ronan
New member
Mostly heavy triggering. The trend bums me out. I think extreme metal records do not sound as intersting as they used to.
X
xfinsterx
New member
Ronan said:
id agree with Ronan.
I dont like how the typical metal production for drums always has samples and tons of 10k.
Its starting to get to cookie cutter.
When i record metal i feel like im doing something innovative by using the acoustic drums!!. lol...silly huh?
But yes triggers is how they do it.
-Finster
Tim Brown
New member
xfinsterx said:
Well the reason for the triggers is because of the heeltoe playing on the kick drums - your just not going to get a powerful kick sound at those tempos. These days it seems that it's all about the attack of the drums, versus the tone of the drums....that's why it all sounds really "clicky". Plus, sinmce everybody is tuning down the guitars and bass, it just helps to cut through.
I have a "love-hate" relationship with triggering. I like the ability to have the exact same sound no matter what I'm doing, but it still kind of sucks at times.
Generally, I just trigger the kicks, but there are times where I've triggered the entire kit - like if I were recording the entire band live in one room - that's when triggers can be a blessing.
Tim
Funky_A
New member
I record every my drums acousticly...and yes I play metal.
Than after that I make a mix of the bass drums and say port 50% acoustic & 50% triggers/drumagog...for the click...
I play with a felt beater to have for that 50% a nice low fat sound instead of a lot of mid as a rubber/wood beater..which I experience do not give me the "slap/click" sound I want...
So for everything toms/snare I go acousticly..
Bass drums - AKG D112...just purchased 2 of these babies last week...schweet
Toms - Between 8" & 10" I have a Sennheiser MD421 setup, also between 12" & 14" and I got one Sennheiser MD421 II on my 16" tom
Snare - AV Jeve clip mic on bottom a Sennheiser MD421 on top
Overheads:
Hi-hats - Beyerdynamic Opus 83 also one on Ride
Overheads - are still to be chosen, I now use the Opus 83 as just overheads..but they will move to ride & hihat...Saturday will be my day of testing al kinds of mics...having an appointment at local music store here.
Indeed it is a shame that more and more bands go trigger nowadays...
Arch Enemy, big fan of them is triggering hardcore since Wages of Sin...don't like the sound of the drums on that that much, still a killer record...then on Anthems of Rebellion, still triggered, but deff. sounded much better the drums and probally mix between mics & triggers on there..
Then again new cd..triggered the shit out of the drums..still a killer cd...but drums could sound even cool....
I think also that when you take away triggers..deff. 50-70% of the metal drummers out there WILL lose a lot of their speed..
I'm not a big Slipknot fan, but deff. good job of Joey Jordison that he still goes with the microphone and not trigger setup live!
Than after that I make a mix of the bass drums and say port 50% acoustic & 50% triggers/drumagog...for the click...
I play with a felt beater to have for that 50% a nice low fat sound instead of a lot of mid as a rubber/wood beater..which I experience do not give me the "slap/click" sound I want...
So for everything toms/snare I go acousticly..
Bass drums - AKG D112...just purchased 2 of these babies last week...schweet
Toms - Between 8" & 10" I have a Sennheiser MD421 setup, also between 12" & 14" and I got one Sennheiser MD421 II on my 16" tom
Snare - AV Jeve clip mic on bottom a Sennheiser MD421 on top
Overheads:
Hi-hats - Beyerdynamic Opus 83 also one on Ride
Overheads - are still to be chosen, I now use the Opus 83 as just overheads..but they will move to ride & hihat...Saturday will be my day of testing al kinds of mics...having an appointment at local music store here.
Indeed it is a shame that more and more bands go trigger nowadays...
Arch Enemy, big fan of them is triggering hardcore since Wages of Sin...don't like the sound of the drums on that that much, still a killer record...then on Anthems of Rebellion, still triggered, but deff. sounded much better the drums and probally mix between mics & triggers on there..
Then again new cd..triggered the shit out of the drums..still a killer cd...but drums could sound even cool....
I think also that when you take away triggers..deff. 50-70% of the metal drummers out there WILL lose a lot of their speed..
I'm not a big Slipknot fan, but deff. good job of Joey Jordison that he still goes with the microphone and not trigger setup live!
X
xfinsterx
New member
Tim Brown said:
Before any metal session, i take aseperate session, and record each of piece of the drummers kit individually.
Then ill take and effect that however i need, and use it as a sound replacement.
At least that way the samples are cohesive to the overheads, and the drums in general.
I will admit it does pretty much eliminate the need for compression and sometimes eq when youve got a super consistent sample tucked in behind the original part.
Tim Brown
New member
Funky_A said:
They won't lose their speed, they'll just lose their volume....because in order to congtinue doing the heel-toe method, they will have to drop the volume of everything else to be able to hear it.
Tim
Wireneck
New member
I call it the Century media drum sound. Im sure they didn't start the trend but I swear to god, every album they release/distribute has the same drum sound. One of my drummer buddies likes to joke about it being the CM drum Preset.
I need to go research this to make sure its completely fact but At the Gate's Slaughter of the soul is completely acoustic as far as I know. The drum sound is brutal for that Style IMHO. Well for the time period haha.
Wireneck
New member
I call it the Century media drum sound. Im sure they didn't start the trend but I swear to god, every album they release/distribute has the same sound. One of my drummer buddies likes to joke about it being the CM drum Preset.
I need to go research this to make sure its completely fact but At the Gate's Slaughter of the soul is completely acoustic as far as I know. The drum sound is brutal for that Style IMHO. Well for the time period haha.
Funky_A
New member
Tim Brown said:
Yeah, you got a point there, but withit I mean....come on..metal is supposed to be loud...it's needs to makes your balls tickle.... so sort of my meaning is...to still have that they need to go slower...till now...every live show I did in metalbands I have managed without triggers...pretty proud of that..
Tim Brown
New member
Funky_A said:
Well, my way around it was to tune the kicks as tight as I could using a powerdrill (I'm dead serious about this one) then ran it through a gate that was being controlled by a trigger mounted on the kick and plugged into the gate's key, then it was compressed so much that there were no dynamics at all - no matter how hard or how soft I hit it, it put out the exact same signal. It sounded like crap really, but it cut through live.
That was the only way I could utilize the heel-toe technique live.
These days, I've moved away from extreme forms of metal and anything I'm really interested in is probably mid-tempo at best. For me, it is a lot more fun to have the kick head really loose and be able to bury the mallet in it, than having it feel like I'm playing against a 2x4. But even then, I'll still be triggering the kicks (Heck, I've got a ddrum unit, why let it go to waste?
)Tim
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metalhead28
Hates Raymond
Wireneck said:
Amen to that.....I love the drums on that album. It does sound acoustic and it definitely is more interesting than alot of extreme stuff nowadays.
W
wishtheend
New member
If the band will sound good without triggering, I say do it. But like it was mentioned above, in extreme metal bands, they are moving at such speeds that there just is no way to hit that kick as hard, each hit. Plus, even though it's the trend, metal is about being loud, always and not letting go. Sure, there are people who will grow tired of it, but it's one of the studio tricks that makes metal what it is.
Even a majority of black/death metal bands carry a drum modual with them on gigs and still trigger their kick & snare. I just see it as an evolution of blending electronics with music to achive sounds we could not create on our own. I totally embrace trigger if you couldn't tell
Like someone else above said, I like to sample the kit I'm recording, do a couple hits from soft, medium and hard on the kick, snare & toms. Then load them into drumagog and use them to enforce what is recorded. The key I found is, if you are going to use samples, still record the kit and all it's parts as if you WEREN'T going to use samples. That way you have a killer drum sound to begin with. Then start feeding in those samples and blend them for just the right amount and the results are awesome.
Even a majority of black/death metal bands carry a drum modual with them on gigs and still trigger their kick & snare. I just see it as an evolution of blending electronics with music to achive sounds we could not create on our own. I totally embrace trigger if you couldn't tell
Like someone else above said, I like to sample the kit I'm recording, do a couple hits from soft, medium and hard on the kick, snare & toms. Then load them into drumagog and use them to enforce what is recorded. The key I found is, if you are going to use samples, still record the kit and all it's parts as if you WEREN'T going to use samples. That way you have a killer drum sound to begin with. Then start feeding in those samples and blend them for just the right amount and the results are awesome.
G
GreenDank
New member
...
The century media comment brings up an interesting point in metal. I went to ozzfest this year, and almost every band used Krank amps. I'm not knocking the amps, but man, have some individuality. Is every metal band looking for the same freakin' sound these days or what? If you can pick up another bands equipment and play your set without really changing any of the sounds, there's something wrong there.
The century media comment brings up an interesting point in metal. I went to ozzfest this year, and almost every band used Krank amps. I'm not knocking the amps, but man, have some individuality. Is every metal band looking for the same freakin' sound these days or what? If you can pick up another bands equipment and play your set without really changing any of the sounds, there's something wrong there.
Ronan
New member
Wireneck said:
That's the bummer about it. so many of the records loose a lot of personality because they have that same kick sound mixed louder than the vocals and guitar.
P
PhiloBeddoe
New member
I also find it interesting that the kick drum has now become the lead instrument, sometimes mixed over the vocal. Overhead mics are purely for sizzle so as to not corrupt the perfect trigger sounds.
I used to hate the idea of triggering altogether, but now I just look at it as playing a different instrument.
Personally I like an old fashioned hard hitting drummer and all the better if things don't sound as robotic.
I've read on these boards that the Meshuggah guy just skipped the middleman and programmed the drums on their latest album. I don't know why more bands don't do this. Ultimately with all the triggers and edits they are trying to sound like a drum machine. Well, there are already great drum machines!
Back to the original question, though, indeed today's metal records are full of triggers and edits. So if that's what your after then that's what you should do.
I used to hate the idea of triggering altogether, but now I just look at it as playing a different instrument.
Personally I like an old fashioned hard hitting drummer and all the better if things don't sound as robotic.
I've read on these boards that the Meshuggah guy just skipped the middleman and programmed the drums on their latest album. I don't know why more bands don't do this. Ultimately with all the triggers and edits they are trying to sound like a drum machine. Well, there are already great drum machines!
Back to the original question, though, indeed today's metal records are full of triggers and edits. So if that's what your after then that's what you should do.
cobradenim
New member
I think that if you're a good drummer and you can tune a good kit, then you don't need triggers. I hate them. What ever happened to individuality anyway?