Headphone monitoring question.

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Thunder Horse

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Hi, I have a small 4 channel mixer. I'm not very advanced in configuring recording chains and I need to know how I can monitor tracks through head phones as I record while independently controlling headphone and monitor volumes. Right now, I'm sending the signal from my mixer to my soundcard, then from the card to another small mixer for monitoring. It gets the job done, but I'm guessing it isn't the proper way. Is there a 1 mixer solution that would allow me to independently control head phones, monitor volumes without causing a feedback loop? What is the common mixer configuration. I'll upgrade mixers if I need to. Thanks for any help.
 
What you want to do is a common requirement. That requirement is provided for in mixers that feature control room facilities. With luck, you have that. But it sounds like you haven't. In that case you will have to develop a work around, for example, by feeding the return from the computer into an alternative channel and using auxilliary sends.
 
I don't mind buying a new mixer.,...preferably under $500. So what's the proper way to do this?
 
That article uses the half plug in method. Is this the most commonly used method? Is it the only method?
 
The "put the plug half way in" method CAN be used but it's a bodge to get around the limitations of an unsuitable mixer.

What you want in a mixer will depend on how you record. If you want to record multiple tracks at the same time, then you want a mixer that offers "direct outs" on each channel. If you only record one or two tracks at a time, then a simpler mixer will do--just use the main left and right outputs.

For your monitoring question, the best way to do this is to use a mixer that has at least one "Pre Fade Auxilliary Output". All but the cheapest, most basic mixers will have this. To use it, bring the line output(s) of you sound card back into the mixer. Turn up the appropriate Aux controls on each channel you're using to give you a mix of the DAW line out and also whatever new instrument or vocal you're recording. Being a pre fade aux, leave the actual faders for the line in completely down but turn up the faders for the new material to feed this into the computer. You can set the exactly balance between new and old tracks by adjusting the Aux send knobs on each individual channels.

Notes: Most mixers allow you to PFL the Aux output to feed it to your headphones...this should be something to watch for when choosing your new mixer. However, if you don't have this feature or need to feed multiple headphones, use the Line Out for the Aux and feed this to a headphone amp.

Second, to avoid possible latency issues, it's desirable to be using ASIO drivers for your sound card/interface.

Hope this helps,

Bob
 
Thunder Horse said:
That article uses the half plug in method.
Click to expand...

Yes, but it works well and gives the direct output you need. The article also links to a simple adapter you can buy so the plugs can be inserted fully and more securely.

--Ethan
 
At the risk of starting a debate, I'm going to disagree with Ethan Winer and Gecko Zzed on a couple of points.

First, the "jack half in". Yeah, it works but it is, at best, a bodge to get around having the wrong mixer. Since the OP has already said he's willing to get a new mixer it would be far better to get one with proper direct outs. However, that's only if the OP actually NEEDS a multi track capability. Nowhere does he actually say this so a simple L/R out may be enough for him. Using the "jack half in" method is subject to Murphy's law which dictates that the jack will either get pushed all the way in or fall out in the middle of an irreplaceable take. If you have to use insert points, far better to solder up some custom connectors that let you push them all the way in--this is the simplest form of soldering and I can give instructions if anyone needs them. But a mixer with direct outs is better still.

Second, "control room facilities". This is not a magic bullet to create perfect monitoring as it depends on exactly what facilities you have. Most commonly this just gives you a feed of the main L/R outs, switching to PFL (pre fade listen) if you activate that on a channel. Some let you PFL an Aux out which is useful but this is not on every mixer.

Far better to learn your mixer and just use the Aux outs as they're intended. Using Auxes allows you to create one or more custom mixes to feed to headphones. Giving the person singing or playing exactly the right mix of both the existing recording(s) and what they're adding to it can make a huge difference to the quality of performance. In a professional situation, be it live or in the studio, as much effort is put into getting the right monitor mix as the FOH/Main mix itself.

Bob
 
Bobbsy said:
Using the "jack half in" method is subject to Murphy's law which dictates that the jack will either get pushed all the way in or fall out in the middle of an irreplaceable take.
Click to expand...

Read my post #8 above again:

Ethan Winer said:
The article also links to a simple adapter you can buy so the plugs can be inserted fully and more securely.
Click to expand...

That solves the problem of potentially flaky connections, and it's a lot cheaper than buying a new mixer if a new mixer is not otherwise needed.

--Ethan
 
...except it doesn't answer the OP's question which was about doing monitor mixes for headphones, not getting multiple channels into his computer. We don't know whether or not he even needs this facility but if he does buy a new mixer to solve his monitoring problem (and he wants the facility) he may as well buy a mixer with proper direct outs.

Bob
 
Occam's Razor, anyone?

Is there any reason why the OP couldn't just pick up a $100 Behringer headphone amp and feed the soundcard output into it?
 
It depends on the facilities in either his DAW or his Soundcard. The ideal headphone mix isn't just the output of pre-recorded tracks, it's a mix of the pre-recorded stuff and the new material being recorded. Some DAWS and/or Soundcards have an ability to create such a mix, others claim to but have enough latency to make it unusable while others don't even try.

In the professional world, monitoring is done using Auxes--I don't understand the reticence home hobbyists seem to have about doing it the professional way. It's not rocket science.

Bob
 
Bobbsy said:
In the professional world, monitoring is done using Auxes
Click to expand...

This brings up an interesting point. I know that some musicians like to hear "more me" in their cans, but in my experience a good mix where everyone is loud and clear is usually sufficient. When I used to record professionally (years ago) I gave the band the same mix I was hearing through the monitors, and complaints were rare. If someone wanted more bass or less keyboard or whatever, I'd do that to my monitor mix and everyone was happy. I don't recall even one time where someone wanted more of something while someone else wanted less.

My partner's studio is more flexible, and he devised a great solution. He sends eight "stems" out to the live room, and everyone there has their own personal mixer feeding their headphones. So all my partner has to do is send the stems out through the eight aux buses (as Bob described), and he doesn't have to deal with the separate mixes. He sends them a rough mix and they can fine tune it to their taste if they want.

--Ethan
 
Ethan Winer said:
This brings up an interesting point. I know that some musicians like to hear "more me" in their cans, but in my experience a good mix where everyone is loud and clear is usually sufficient.
Click to expand...

I consistently find that each singer needs more of their own voice than I would ever put in a balanced mix. Singers sharing mixes always seem to have too much of the other singers and not enough of themselves. This is because a person's voice in their monitor has to overcome bone conduction to sound right, and each singer only hears their own bone conduction. Everybody's "more me" requirements are in conflict.
 
I agree 100% with bouldersoundguy.

Especially when working with people new to the recording process (who tend to say "fine" to whatever you give them in their headphone mix) it's striking how often you can cure pitch problems by simply giving the vocalist a bit more of themselves in their cans.

Bob
 
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