Have you ever "practiced" writing songs ?

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grimtraveller

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
From time to time, people weigh in with advice that amounts to "Keep practicing your writing craft and you'll get better."
Personally, I find that kind of illogical. I always have. I've never actually practiced writing, I've just written. I've never written a song that I didn't intend, at some point, to record or started one that I didn't intend, at some point, to finish up and record.
Does anyone here "practice" the art of songwriting ?
I guess I find the notion bizarre because it's not like practicing an instrument or even another language.
I guess I've been moved by the "how many bad songs do you have to write before you write a good one ?" thread.
 
well ..... how can you 'practice' writing a song without writing a song?

But I think in this case what's meant is practice your craft as a Doctor is in the 'practice' of medicine
 
I don't practice writing songs, never have. Personally I like my songs to happen as part of the process of creating the whole in all respects. What I have learnt/practiced is the mechanics of writing rhythmically and how to have the best possible grasp I can of the language I use. Creating imagery, using metaphors, word play, various rhyme approaches and so on helps me to turn something which has real appeal in my head into a set of lines which I can read at a later time and have the initial mood/idea coming off the page at me. Obviously interpretation by others will vary but that's life and could result in something which really grabs a listener.

When I'm struggling to articulate something I create a passage of music which fits my idea, loop it and sing whatever comes to mind then sift through that output until I find the first few lines of the song. I can usually add to it in the same kind of groove quite easily once I get a verse.

Regards

Tim
 
"Craft" in regards to songwriting has quickly become my least favorite catchword cliche.
 
I think the first 20 or so that I wrote back in my youth would fall under the heading of "practice songs" :)

Yes..."craft" is kinda cliché. but then the audio/music world is full of those overused terms, but it is what it is.
I think people assume that any type of songwriting is a "craft", but it's not the case, IMO.

There are some instances where you get to a point with songwriting that is beyond the "Oh, I had an inspiration to write this song" kind of thing. Sure, those are the easy/fun ones because they just roll off without a lot of effort.
The only time it becomes more of a "craft" is focused purpose-writing.
While it may include moments of inspiration, the majority of it is just good old "elbow grease"...and your mostly constructing the song like any building project.
You have the idea, come up with a working plan/path, and then you get going on it, from the ground up, constructing each section as needed, etc. until it's done
When you are able to do that kind of songwriting with ease and regularity, and actually come up with songs that are pretty darn good overall....I think only then the word "craft" can truly apply.

I'm still working off of the inspiration approach....with just a touch of "craft" when I'm really on my game. :D
 
I think that some people that say that 'practice your craft' line actually mean 'your current song isn't very good, so write another one'. However, I do think that you can definitely practice.. figuring out different ways to rhyme, alliteration, timing.. Or maybe you write story songs? Practice going into detail about something, and painting a picture with the words. Whenever I hear someone rhyme eyes with lies I want to go strangle an ostrich.

Also one way to practice - same way as if you failed a paper. Take your song and write it in a different way. Even just take one line and re-write it using different words, or different phrasing.

I have been known to give my 2 cents to people I know.. in once instance the person had written "As we plunder down this road". It was supposed to be a sad lovey type song, but that right there made me imagine a couple of looters raping and pillaging up and down the street. He still didn't change it..

I have substituted lines meant for one song and put them in another, so I guess that could be practicing. It's not easy to take critique on your music, especially lyrics. That's definitely one of my faults. But I don't have to deal with it, since I never show my stuff to anyone anyways :thumbs up:
 
You dont practice, like you would practice scales, you apply what you learn, and move on.

This notion that your born knowing how to write songs is rediculous. If you write a song, and you have a verse,
and a chorus, then you automatically have applied something you have learned from other songs.

if you were to raise a young child in a remote area, with no music, and then suddenly introduce him to a guitar, dont teach him
anything about it, do you think he will play anything? He will not be able to make sense out of it.

Take that same kid, and teach him how to play guitar, and then let him listen to the beatles. What group do you think he is going to sound like?

Like it or not, aware of it or not, we are only products of everything we have ever heard. We cant help stealing ideas from other artists because we didnt invent music, and we only have 12 notes to work with.

So dont think that because you "just write" that your writing is not reflecting an understanding of SOME songwriting.

Listening is my number one, you learn alot just by listening, whether or not you realize it. To think that Bob Dylan, Paul Mccartney,
Harry Chapin, James Taylor, or ANY artist really hasnt learned how to write, you are thinking wrong. Everybody learns somehow or another

if you had to learn an instrument, why wouldnt you have to learn to use your instrument to write songs. The craft just gives you more control over your art. instead of hoping the river parts and a song is handed to you, with perfect wording and structure etc etc etc, you can take a small idea and build it into a complete song.

I would say most songs start out as small one measure or two measure motifs. A riff, a melody, one line of lyric, knowing your craft you can develope that into a full song, Otherwise pray the entire thing comes to you, not likely!
 
I just started the (free) online Berklee Songwriting Class - it does give you exercises, so I guess that could be considered 'practice'. ;)
 
mjbphotos said:
I just started the (free) online Berklee Songwriting Class - it does give you exercises, so I guess that could be considered 'practice'. ;)
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You can practice. You could go to an online dictionary, or to a random search in wikipedia, whatever word, phrase or topic comes up, try to write a song about it. Formal exercises are more for the grand pa who is retired and doesnt know what else to do for a hobby.
 
I suspect I've been one to use the phrase "practise your craft" - and I fully agree that 1) craft my be somewhat of a cliche' and 2) the word practise is misleading.

I feel every time I write or start to write I am "practising the craft" just as everytime I play a chord sequence or play a riff I am "practising" on an instrument.

I'm a big believer in the value of "re-writes" and if there is a part of the writing process which could best meet the definition of "practising the craft" it would be during the re-write process - in which a writer tries to refine lyrical content, finding words to better describe a feeling or a scenario, etc.

The more I re-write, the stronger my lyrical skills become (much like the more I play scales or rudiments, etc. the stronger my instrumental skills become) - I guess that could be considered "practise"
 
If the question seems vague, nebulous or ambiguous, it's because it is ! I personally meant it in the sense that the way the point "practice your songwriting" is put, it gives the impression that you practice it like you'd practice scales, so it's kind of disposable until the day you hit on a song that you like.
By the way, I never used the term 'craft', I simply repeated what others had said. But among it's 5 or so meanings is simply "Skill or ability".
 
grimtraveller said:
If the question seems vague, nebulous or ambiguous, it's because it is ! I personally meant it in the sense that the way the point "practice your songwriting" is put, it gives the impression that you practice it like you'd practice scales, so it's kind of disposable until the day you hit on a song that you like.
By the way, I never used the term 'craft', I simply repeated what others had said. But among it's 5 or so meanings is simply "Skill or ability".
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Craft is understanding of principles and applying them. A carpenter has craft, a doctor has craft, to say that anybody can just start cutting wood without knowing how to build a cabinet, is the same thing that says you dont have to know anything about songwriting to write a song, you dont, but you might make a sink when you are supposed to make a cabinet
 
barry c said:
You can practice. You could go to an online dictionary, or to a random search in wikipedia, whatever word, phrase or topic comes up, try to write a song about it. Formal exercises are more for the grand pa who is retired and doesnt know what else to do for a hobby.
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A Berklee class for retired grandpas? You do know what Berklee is, right?
 
One thing I can say about my stuff, is each song is kind of intended as an improvement of the last. To the point where if I listen to two songs I wrote together chronologically, they sound similar cuz I'm often working with similar ideas and sounds. If I go back 3 or 4 songs they sound pretty different but any one sounds similar to the next. I like to think they're evolving but I'm probably kidding myself. :)
 
fat_fleet said:
I like to think they're evolving but I'm probably kidding myself. :)
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Not necessarily. Songwriting and recording evolution are not always immediately obvious, not from song to song.

barry c said:
Craft is understanding of principles and applying them.
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Well, that's one definition. Many of the words we use are interesting in that, if you look up actual definitions, you'll discover that one word may have several meanings. Some of those meanings may be related or kind of extensions. But what may be meant by one person is not necessarily what is understood by another. "Craft" is an example of that.
barry c said:
Craft is understanding of principles and applying them
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Perhaps. But this isn't necessarily a conscious thing, hence your "primitive" writers. An interesting example of this can be traced to the pop bands of the 60s. The supposed musicologists and cognoscenti in so many instances refused to take these youngsters who were writing their own songs seriously because they appeared to have no formal tutoring or hadn't come up the "Tin pan alley"/Brill building/musicals route. Yet at the same time, they couldn't help but be struck by all the seemingly clever subtleties that your Beatles and Dylan's etc were using in their music and in particular, their songwriting. Yet these artists never knew what the musicologists were talking about half the time. When asked about his inventive use of onomatopoeia, John Lennon at age 24 said "Automatic pier ? I don't know what you're on about, my son !"
Just before he died in 1980, he was commenting on a very famous article from 1963 by William Mann in the Times, a very highbrow English newspaper, in which Mann spoke of their "pandiotonic clusters" and "aeolian cadences" and he said "To this day, I still have no idea what aeolian cadences are. They sound like exotic birds !"
barry c said:
is the same thing that says you dont have to know anything about songwriting to write a song
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Has anyone actually said this ? I don't recall anything quite so brazen. Where I think I differ with you is that seem to feel that there is only one parameter of well craftedness that songs fit to whereas I think there's more than one because there are different kinds of songs.
 
mjbphotos said:
A Berklee class for retired grandpas? You do know what Berklee is, right?
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I mentioned Berkly, but I didnt mention it in this thread, Berkly College is a good school of music.

If you mentioned Berkley in your post, I didnt see it, there are many courses online that are garbage, which is why I said that.

You can practice songwriting, but it's anot a fixed material thing, not like looking at a scale sheet and practicing scales. You just do it, and do it again and again thinking about how it can get better. try different styles, didnt point of views, different subjects than you are used to, you can try to write a song per day like they have at FAWM.ORG / February Album Writing Month feburary is the designated month for this.
 
barry c said:
I mentioned Berkly, but I didnt mention it in this thread, Berkly College is a good school of music.

If you mentioned Berkley in your post, I didnt see it, there are many courses online that are garbage, which is why I said that.
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Go back to page 1 of this thread - you quoted me when you made your 'grandpas' statement. And it's spelled 'Berklee'. First week of class and I've already picked up some good ideas for improving my songwriting.
 
mjbphotos said:
Go back to page 1 of this thread - you quoted me when you made your 'grandpas' statement. And it's spelled 'Berklee'. First week of class and I've already picked up some good ideas for improving my songwriting.
Click to expand...

Ok didnt see it, knock it out of the park.
 
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