Hat in the ring

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BroKen_H

BroKen_H

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Lots going on in the clinic today, so here's my new project in it's infancy.

There are performance problems, no vocals (yet)...and it's full of amp sims and my e-drums (but at least it's me playing them).

Okay, New link



And phase II

 
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Drums sound way back. Really muddy, but for sure guitars and bass are too loud lol. It sounds like some cool ideas though. You should invest the time into song writing and mastering bridges :thumbs up:

Like intro, verse, chorus, bridge etc.
 
Sounds compressed and overmastered. The guitars have a harsh edge. I'm hearing mostly guitars. Not much of the bass and drums, except that crash or splash cymbal right of center. I'd cut the compression to get some dynamics back in, and shoot for a balance between guitars, bass, and drums. Give it a melody and some lyrics.
 
Yea, that thing has no life. Sounds like a karaoke track. There is no bottom to it either. Mix levels seem OK, but the lack of bottom could be hurting the drums.

I didn't listen on speakers, just a good pair of headphones just for reference. Putting some life into the mix will really help this composition.

Hope this helps.
 
Okay! Accidentally posted the wrong clip. There are two...one with and without Izotope. Was just playing with the Izotope thing and way overdid the limiting to see what it sounded like vs original.

Anyway, Phil, thanks for all the compliments. I haven't nailed this thing down yet. When I get the lyrics the whole structure may move around a bit. Glad you like the pieces. :)

Roy and Dave. Thanks for the listen. Hopefully the other track sounds somewhat better.

The RIGHT file.

 
My two cents:

Distorted guitar seems to be trouncing over everything. It would probably give the other instruments some space if it were reduced. More lower end, everything seems to go towards the middle frequencies, but I think that is the guitar doing that.

I would speculate, if you pulled the distorted guitar back, can get it to sit better (volume and EQ), give a little bass, this thing opens up.
 
Thanks David. Pulled the guitars back and the strings (cause they need to run about the same relative volume to the guitars for the song). Brings the drums forward a lot better, but I think the bass got too loud. Fix that next Wed. when I'm off next and have fresh ears. Maybe by then I'll have a lyric to work with.
 
Are you playing your kit live? As in no loops? The timing is off a lot it seems...especially snare and some cymbal crashes. And unless you are going for real heavy rock song I would stray away from the double kick, in my opinion it doesn't work with such a happy sounding song. I would also, bring down any reverb you have on the kit, it doesn't sound natural.

As far as the rest of the instruments it does sound like they are fighting for space. Being a guitar player and liking rock, I prefer to let the guitar drive the song and keys accent the it. In your song I am hearing them all fight for the front. The guitar is also coming straight center from what I can hear, I would double track them left and right and let the keys be more center.
 
It's an e-kit, and yes, I'm playing it live. Which leads to being off a bit at times as it's hard when midi/drivers/whatever is causing about a 20ms delay. I don't have a double bass, it's just how I kick. :)
Like I said earlier, I need to learn the drum line (this was just a quickie to get it on the track) and the bass line (same deal) and retrack...plus vocals. I practiced the guitar parts for the last two weeks and the rest was just thrown on to show the concept. :) Probably why I had them too loud to begin with.

Yeah, the instruments are playing with each other. Strings are meant to be tag along Pete and just accentuate the guitars in spots. Actually, there's two sets of 80 and 60 panned guitars...maybe they're fighting too much. Got to get busy with the EQ and shape a few things in (or out).
 
The Izo version was scary! The bass, when it hits the lower notes sounds strange, maybe some compression on it would even stuff out.
 
Thanks Mike. I'll put an ear on that Wednesday after I get retracking done. I've been trying to DI my standard setup (bi-amped bass with 1 18 and 2 10s). Always loved the sound of that, but it's really hard to duplicate without cab sims for either...I'm getting closer :)

Okay, general question: I'm feeling like my nice clean guitar line is being clobbered by having 4 guitars doing semi the same thing and the fifth doing the octave up jangling in spots. Do you think EQing will bring back the shimmer of the guitar line or may is this something where less (tracks) is more? Should I retrack each with less distortion to unclutter? I mean the performances are pretty tight (for me), so something's got to be blanding this thing up...

Yeah, I know, experiment. :)
 
Sounds like it might have a little too much sizzle. I could be full of crap though, just seems pretty hot in the cymbals on my headphones. Cool start, hope you do get some vocals on it!

Edit: nevermind, that was the first track. Second one feels better. :thumbs up:
 
BroKen_H said:
Okay, general question: I'm feeling like my nice clean guitar line is being clobbered by having 4 guitars doing semi the same thing and the fifth doing the octave up jangling in spots. Do you think EQing will bring back the shimmer of the guitar line or may is this something where less (tracks) is more? Should I retrack each with less distortion to unclutter? I mean the performances are pretty tight (for me), so something's got to be blanding this thing up...

Yeah, I know, experiment. :)
Click to expand...

Maybe try muting 2 of the guitar tracks. Then a little low-mid scoop EQ on the remaining guitars, if it still isn't hitting your ears right.
 
mjbphotos said:
Maybe try muting 2 of the guitar tracks. Then a little low-mid scoop EQ on the remaining guitars, if it still isn't hitting your ears right.
Click to expand...

Mike, that's amazing. Exactly what I did yesterday. Really popped the guitar part where I wanted it. Did the notch routine boosting 450 and cutting 600 on one and vice-versa on the other. Really brought them forward and distinct.

Did some work trying to salvage the drum part (moving a few things toward the lines). I hate quantizing, because it starts to sound robotic, but nudging towards the marks helps the off snare and hi-hat hits. It is REALLY hard to play drums when what you hear is 1/5th of a second behind what you play....I may retrack the whole thing anyway. Seems the consensus leaned toward not doing 80s double kick style lead ins. Can't pull those out without making the kicks around them sound wrong. I kinda like them, but I'm stuck in the 80s. :) Lots of people seem to think my drum lines are too complicated for the music anyway. I'll try something simpler and see how it sounds.

Tomorrow I'll retrack the bass for sure. Been practicing. :D

No lyric has thrown itself at me, yet, but I've got the vocal line running in my brain like a freight train. Might do a concepts and nears exercise tomorrow as well and see what pops out.
 
easlern said:
Sounds like it might have a little too much sizzle. I could be full of crap though, just seems pretty hot in the cymbals on my headphones. Cool start, hope you do get some vocals on it!

Edit: nevermind, that was the first track. Second one feels better. :thumbs up:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the listen(s). Yeah, the first was an experiment to show me what frequencies, etc. change when I pump Izotope Maximizer. I pushed it too far on purpose to accentuate what needed to be EQd before hitting it. Mastering is not in my skill set, yet. But I keep experimenting.

Consensus seems to be that the bits are good. I just need that elusive lyric and I'll build a structure out of the pieces. I rarely write a song beginning to end without inserting/moving/deleting elements of the original idea. :D
 
BroKen_H said:
It is REALLY hard to play drums when what you hear is 1/5th of a second behind what you play....I may retrack the whole thing anyway.
Click to expand...

When I had my Alesis kit I had to do some adjustments to my DAW to hear exactly what was coming from the drum module at the precise time. If I remember correctly it had something to do with the "input echo" button and some setting in the module. It took me a bit to figure out but I did get it to work correctly so there was not that delay.
 
Yeah, it's not just Reason. I'm using the Alesis 10 Studio through midi via my US1800 (couple microseconds..negligible) into SSD4 through it's host, Reaper (another 5ms, still doable) then output through channels 3/4 on the US1800 and back into inputs 13/14 of the US1800 into Reason (6-7ms) and then through Reason and back out through 1/2 on the US1800 to the speakers (another 5ms)...totals about 20 ms even at lowest latency in/out.

The only other thing I can think to do, is monitor via Reaper to cut out the extra latency, and then render the tracks and import them into Reason...it's still a drag, but I might get tighter performance. Just have to hook up one set of monitors on 1/2 for Reaper's out and the other set on 3/4 to hear the song via Reason...and then comes searching for how to get them to sync.

and come to think of it, I could just export the song as a two track from Reason and play it through Reaper while tracking the drums, then render/import. Might be a lot less hassle. Getting perfect alignment is going to be a headache no matter how I do this, but I need something that will work for the situation I find myself in. Seriously wish I had room for my Pearl kit in house. :( I also wish I could get Steven Slate to make an RE, or Propellerhead to open up to AAX (their one major flaw).

Still, using my real drums would entail mike placement (as well as necessitating the purchase of more mikes, which I cannot do at the present) and other hassles such as not being able to play most times of the day.

I think I'll try option 3 first...:)
 
I'm undercutting there somehow. 20ms is about 1/50th of a second, not a fifth. So something is adding in there. Got to be hitting 150-200ms with all my routing somehow, because that's the kind of delay I'm getting. If I could get it under 40, that would be nice. Guess it's time to dig out some manuals and start looking. :)
 
Yeah sounds like you have a lot going on there. At that point, I would build the best kit I could in the Alesis module, and record direct and leave out the midi altogether. Less options in the mixing stage without midi I know, but sounds like your having a heck of a time trying to play along and record with such a delay. I know I couldn't do it.
 
If I had gotten the replacement software instead of SSD4, that would be the easiest answer...my hindsight is still 20/20 :)
 
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