Hard drive setup question

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Trotter

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In the very near future I will be installing a Maxtor D740x in my pc. I have read that it should be installed as the secondary master, while the OS and programs should be on the boot drive. The only thing that concerns me is my boot drive is a very slow Quantum lct15. The RPMS for this drive is 4,400. So I guess my question is, will the slower boot drive affect the performance of my 7200 RPM audio drive? Would I be better off making the Maxtor the boot drive and making the slow drive the slave?

Trotter
 
Hi Trotter,

Yes, generally speaking a slower hard drive will support a lower level of UDMA and ATA support and will affect a faster one especially if it is left as a boot drive. Remember the lack of speed on the old drive will constantly be a problem if it contains the operating system. As well as the fact that slower HDs affect the transfer rate of faster ones. There are 2 options here:

The best option is to transfer all the slow drive's contents to the new drive. Make that the boot drive. Create 2 partitions on the new drive, the second you use for audio work. Leave the old drive out.


The second option takes heed of the fact that it is better to use 2 drives when doing audio work to minimise the overuse and possible overheating of one drive. In this case make the new HD the boot and use the old one as your audio drive. This in my opinion is not ideal as

1) having 2 HDs in a system often causes heat problems (don't position them together in case!) and

2) You are then using your slow HD for your audio use.
 
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If the drives are on seperate cables, I wouldnt worry about it. The slow drive will only effect the new drive if they are on the same cable. HOWEVER, it will effect the speed of the swap file if it is on the c drive, and people who are fanactis about seperate drives dont want the swap file on the audio drive....people who are fanatics about getting the most speed out of the machine dont want it on the boot partition...


Keeping it seperate is not near as important as it used to be, especially with fast drives and fast machines. If it were me, I would trash the old drive, make one big partition and put every thing on it...but I have a fast box, and I know what I'm doing. Currently, I run two drives, but only cuz I need the space.
 
Why not just grab an extra 20GB 7200RPM HDD as your main OS/application drive for $60, and lose the beast?

Setting up a second partition on a single drive for audio data can be done, but remember that a second partition isn't the same as a second hard drive. The drive's heads can only be in one place at one time, and if the drive needs to access something on the Windows side while you're recording, your take may get hosed. It's pretty frustrating.

The benefit is that hard drive speed is the worst bottleneck in a computer system. Getting a faster one for your OS and applications will increase your overall system speed a great deal, not just when you're recording.
 
Using the 4400 for audio will definately slow your performance. I'm not sure if it would be better to just use the newer drive or keep the OS on the old one. You should just experiment and see or just get another HD and be sure about it.
 
There's an excellent article on this topic is the April 2002 edition of Sound on Sound magazine (Optimising PC Hard Drives For Audio). It's what I relied on when adding a second HD to my system.
 
"1) having 2 HDs in a system often causes heat problems (don't position them together in case!)"

Total nonsense. Two drives in a PC is no problem at all.

For a general purpose computer, it is best to have the fast drive as the boot/system drive. This is because the system drive needs to read/write constantly to handle the swap file and other temporary files.

However, in a DAW, assuming you can't afford to buy 2 fast drives, you want to use the faster drive for your audio data. Drive perfomance is most important here. Leave the old drive as your system drive and just accept that the system will run a bit slower.
 
I was interested to see your comments.
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Total nonsense. Two drives in a PC is no problem at all.

I think you should read my comments again more carefully. I was talking about the fact that two hard discs should not be mounted together. In my line of work it is common practice to separate them. I am for what it's worth an experienced computer engineer. My previous comment that one should try to mount two hard discs drive seperate from each other is well founded in our experience. I myself have discovered more than 5 recent systems where this was an issue. But perhaps you don't have a recent system. If you doubt this then let me also assure you that on many occasions I have seen hard discs mounted in this way add so much heat to an already hot case that they have contributed to system instability.

"Total Nonsense?"

Dare I say "Maybe.. just maybe not!" I tend not to use words like "Total nonsense" just in case I'm wrong!

Please share your experiences of Hard discs. I would be interested to hear your positive comments.
 
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johnhoe said:
The best option is to transfer all the slow drive's contents to the new drive. Make that the boot drive. Create 2 partitions on the new drive, the second you use for audio work. Leave the old drive out.
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So a few questions:

1) What's the best way to transfer contents of the old drive to the new one?

2) Do the jumpers need to be switched around before/after the new drive is made into the master drive?
(old boot/master jumpers switched to slave)

3) Do you partition the new drive before or after you make it the boot drive?

Thanks
 
OK, I see now what you are saying. I will retract my comments - sorry.

I agree that placing two hard drives so they are physically touching one another is not desireable, from a heat standpoint if nothing else. However that being said I'll also add that I have seen many PCs where the hard drives were placed together simply because the cases where packed completely full - one of my PCs at home qualifies for this. It is usually not a problem, but a better solution would be to just buy a bigger case.

From a statistics stand point, I used to run a service desk at a computer retailer, moved on to do Helpdesk/PC support for a telecom company. I figure I've been inside several thousand PCs by now (most amusing was a customers PC that had sucked in so much cat hair that it caught fire and melted the motherboard).

Blip, the answers to your questions might vary a bit depending on what OS you are using, but generally speaking:

1) If a drive contains merely data and nothing else, any form of file copy will work. I usually keep a few Win98 boot floppies arround and keep Xcopy on them for this purpose.

If however your OS is on the drive, it gets a bit more complicated. Many copy utilities will not touch a windows registry or other hidden files. I HIGHLY recomend getting a utility like Symantec Ghost or Powerquest Drive Image. Having one of these makes cloneing a drive very, very easy. They are also great for making drive or partition backups, and if you have 2 drives in a system they are even more useful. You can copy an image of your system drive, write it out in 650 meg chunks to your data drive, and then move them to CDR. Then if your system drive ever dies, you replace it, boot up from a floppy with a CD driver, and you are totally restored in minutes. When you support hundreds of PCs like I do it's a real time and life saver.

2) Yes jumpers need to be changed. Each IDE controller can handle two devices, a master and a slave. On some drives (Maxtor) the setting for Master is also used for single drive. on others (Western Digital) there are seperate setting for single drive, master, or slave. These setting are nearly always written on the drive label, so the time to change them is when you have the drive out of the system, before mounting it.

3) Partitioning is something that has to be done regardless of whether a drive is the boot drive or not. Even if you want the drive as one big space, that is still a partition. If you are using the FAT32 file system, I usually use a Win98 boot floppy and just run the old FDISK utility. If the Primary IDE controller has a hard drive on it, and that drive has an active partition on it, the system will want to boot from there.

If you have Win NT / 2000 / XP, and want to use the NTFS file system, you typically need to do partitioning from the OS itself. On a new compluter with a blank hard drive that means booting from your OS CD and going through the install process. If adding a new drive to an existing system you usually do this from inside the Disk Administrator utility.

This is another reason I love Ghost - when you clone a drive, it carries the file system along with it, and automaticly re-sizes the partition to fit the new drive.

Hope some of that answers your questions....
 
Thanks RWhite. I learned the hard way how useful a copying program could be. I ended up going the hillbilly route and disconnecting my old drive, and installing win98 on the new drive from scratch. I kind of wanted to anyway just to clear out the old junk from 2 years of Win98 but it's taking me days to get everything operational again!

Also thanks to all re discussion on heat and hard drive, in the end I thougt it prudent to give my two drives some "breathing room" which meant some impromptu drive shuffling, think I'll pick up another fan just to be safe especially since I'll be running both drives for audio (Cakewalk app on new and data files on old). Jumpers were no big deal, but I did have both a Maxtor and a WD so they each took some experimenting. All is well.

Be warned all, if you don't use a program to copy over all of windows be sure to save every damn thing you might want. Goes without saying , but I scanned my drive for hours looking for things I might want only to forget to copy over hundreds of favorites from my web folders, Doh! also write down all those passwords that windows remembers for you for on-line services!
 
An interesting thread...

After our discussions I had my case side off and "intimately" felt around inside the case for hot spots. The processor fan doesn't even get hot to the touch (and yet hmonitor says its running at 58C). However, in contrast, the 1 hard drive (60G Western Dig) gets so hot that it is uncomfortable to touch after about 1 hrs use! I similar to u Rwhite would have to cram a second hard drive right butt up to the first THEORETICALLY! But I would even rather drill into the bottom of the case to mount a 2nd hard drive rather than that!

I also notice that many posts on this forum have taken up the discussion on heat inside the box. Questioning the wisdom of eg putting a CD writer too close to other devices. If you have a breakout box (as many of us do) it just adds to the heat problem so it it hardy surprising that many are looking to metal cases for a solution as most extra fans just add to the noise level.

I endorse what you say about Norton "Ghost" as a means of backing up. But hey...

I would never have upgraded to Windows Xp unless at some point I had to move info between hard discs. It is often (as has been pointed out) healthy to do fresh re-installs of OSs. You can easily back up audio and docs onto a CD and reinstall all software. (Also there is sometimes a problem in updating Win98/ME to XP the dreaded "Ntldr is missing problem") Therefore if you can, fresh install WinxP (or win98 again if you're feeling boring!) on the new drive. Boot from Win98 floppy boot disc do Fdisk, Format. Reboot from Win98 boot, run setup from cd disc blah blah blah.. (you know this bit don't you?). I think Winxp can just be installed by booting from the CD, and it takes care of all the fdisk, formatting (cant remember may be wrong here!)
You can connect the old drive up then temporarily to transfer files (which should be backed up on a CD anyway just in case). This is only one option and its just my opinion I daresay others will disagree...

But that's life. That's how come we get to have a discussion!
 
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It's alive!

Hi,

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone for helping out with my problem. Last week I installed my hard drive with no problem. It just was kinda unnerving being the first time and all.

As a matter of fact it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. The only problem was having to try to install it in a very small case. I have a HP Pav in a mini tower.

I installed the new hard drive as the secondary master and set my CD writer to secondary slave. Everything seems to be working ok.

There was no way to connect the end of the secondary IDE cable to the hard drive, so I hooked it up to the connector in the middle. The jumpers are set correctly so I guess it doesn't matter how the cable is connected? Sure hope so...

Also, I used the Maxblast software to format and partition the hard drive. The hard drive seems to be working great.

Hey newbies, if I can do this anyone can...

Thanks, computer recording gurus!
 
...I've seen few review in my local magazine about adding some storage controller card like Escalade 3W-6200. It said can enhance your HD's speed, reability & performance by 600%. Is it true ? Any pro's ? Con's ? What the effect in audio works ?


BTW, Maxblast ? where can I get review about that ware ? Is it free ? :D
 
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