hard disk recorder niche?

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dobro

dobro

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What I'd like right now is a 4-channel hard disk recorder that does 24/96. I'd be happy if it was 8-channel, for future possibilities. So why, WHY are all the manufacturers putting out 16-track machines (or 24) as soon as they get the processing up to 24/48 or higher? They could sell TRUCKLOADS of 4-track machines to home recordists. Hasn't anybody told them? What am I missing here? I mean, don't all those extra channels needs preamps, adding a lot to the price? And what about AD/DA converters - do you need one for each channel, or does one handle everything?
 
Probably for the same reason car manufacturers don't put leather interiors, CD changers, and navigation systems into cheapo 4-cylinder cars.

Surveys have shown that people who want high-priced options almost always want to add them to the upscale models.

A Yugo with "All-Wheel Drive" is still a Yugo. :D
 
Well, the Fostex D1624 in my studio has 8 channels of A/D, and 16 channels of D/A, does 24/96, and was available a price that was reasonable enough for me to be able buy it. The 2424 appears to have 8 in, 24 out. So what else is new? There's not much market for entry-level 4-track stuff anymore that isn't handled adequately by the 4-track Sony or Yamaha MD recorders, or all the different analog cassette-based machines from all the different vendors. If you're no longer entry-level and are prepared to ante up for a tapeless multitrack, they are certainly out there. But not at your desired price point, maybe: the next step up brings a lot of bang for the buck.

With the Fostex stuff, I found that once you've paid for the power supply, chassis, and 8 A/D converters, the rest is essentially free. Which is why I chose it over the Tascam and Mackie units. The Mackie was vaporware at the time I bought it, and the only thing the Tascam shows up with is a power cord: all the converters and I/O for that unit are a *small* additional charge...

There's been a significant shakeout in the low-track-count project studio market. The low end is gutted. What used to be served by the Portastudio is now saturated by 4-track cassette or MD machines from multiple vendors. And realistically, very few people will pay the additional freight for "high-quality" digital, in the face of that seriously low-cost competition: few enough that it is not really a viable market segment. Competition killed the machine that you desire.

So the vendors focus on 8 and up for their 24/96 HDR offerings, because that is where the multitrack volume is. Realistically, they focus on 16 and up these days, because very few people actually _want_ (read: are willing to pay for) just 4 or 8 tracks any more. Shoot, finding out that La Vida Loca was done on a mere 150 tracks in Pro Tools really took all the wind out of the sales of 4-track hardware to songwriters like you and me, didn't it? (;-)

I've personally been comfortable with 16 tracks since 1980 (when it was an unbelieveable luxury). Of course, I've never claimed to be anything but a dinosaur. If, Gawd forbid, I need more than 16, I can sync Cubase to the 1624 with timecode, and it will probably only eat my data 1 or 2 times out of 20. Or maybe 3. Cool- I'm set, right?

Now, what was that about a 4-track standalone HDR? (;-)

If there was a good one out there (say, equivalent to the Masterlink), you can bet your butt that I'd buy one as well for my remote work. But it's you and me versus entropy there, sir. The rest of the world just _knows_ that they need 150 tracks to do their Music, and a whole art form has died: just like making vacuum tubes, or hand-setting 24-point Cheltenham Italic type out of a wooden cabinet to print a short run of wedding invitiations on a hand-fed Chandler & Price letterpress...
 
Well, you'd think there would be a niche for 4-track hard disk recorders. I think the lack thereof probably has a lot to do with the advent of cheap PC's. You can do 4 track+ recording so easily now using your old P133 PC and SB card that companies like Tascam, etc. are trying to keep ahead of the game. Its still pretty hard to do 24 track recording on the run-of-the-mill PC these days. The base model 2424, by the way, is 24 in and out, comes without A/D or D/A converters (its like $800 extra for 24) or 24 digital I/O ($500 extra) and has no preamps. You do need one A/D converter for each channel, to answer your question. But, these prices are pretty competetive considering the price of a comparable set up with a computer.

I find these new hard disk recorders pretty tempting myself, but I think they'll only get better and cheaper as they struggle to keep up with the screaming pace of PCs. Once you can get 24 tracks of 24/96 (or better) for around $3000, I might break down. For now I'll stick with my terminal 8 I/O Gadget Labs set up and hone my skills.

BTW doesn't Roland still make cheap(ish) 4 and 8 track hard disk recorders?
 
Gentlemen (Gnarled, you *are* a gentleman, no?), seldom has one of my questions been answered so fully and usefully. Skippy, you're a bit of a poet, too.

The Fostex comes closest to what I'm looking for. And yet I've been sitting on the 8 channels of my Gadgetlabs Wave 8/24, and so far I haven't used more than 2 of them at any one time. And like you, Skippy, I'm no fan of computer hassle - I'd rather have a box.

You're both right. It's just that I was thinking this way: all these people I know with 4 or 8-channel soundcards might conceivably be a huge market for a quality hard disk Portastudio equivalent.

Hmm... another thought. Modular add-on systems. You buy a four-channel box - relatively expensive per channel, but with quality converters and pres, bypassable if you want to use external channel strips or converters. Not all *that* pricey though, because it has only four channels. Later on, you can kick in another $800 or whatever and get another four channels that you hook up to the first box like you do ADATs. Upgradable software. Digital IO so you can mix on your computer. As few or as many channels as you need or can afford. The home recording market is entranced, hooked on a dream. Sweet.

As for Roland, I think their 24/96 offerings are sporting way more channels than I want.
 
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