guits bleed through vocal mic...& other.

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Jouni

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My biggest consern at the moment is micing and recording my bands rehealsals, as we're getting ready for our first gig, it seems it has some future depending on it...

Micing shit up in a small room with shit gear isn't easy..
(as you can hear here:

...big file...)

Biggest prob at the moment is that the guitars bleed through the vocal mic, and mixing the tracks together, are out of phase.
Making a high-pitch "flanger"-type effect to the middle where the vocals are.
Any way to get rid of that?.. I've tried to remove the bleed, to no avail, and delay the vocal track, bit the snare is on the same track and starts to sound tinny...
My only decent recorder can bring home only 4 tracks...




The OTHER prob... the vocals are feedbacking like crazy!!! ...If we drop the volume, or turn the cabs away from singer he cant hear himself... any angle on THAT.. besides the obvious, which I thought of just now... headphones to the singer.. :o
 
In a small room, you are kind of screwed. There is no way to get around the laws of physics.

You might want to think about dropping the volume on the guitars or singing louder. I can't imagine that a guitar amp 5 feet away is louder than your singers voice right next to the mic. (unless the room is really an 8 foot by 8 foot cube)

Some room treatment will help. Blankets, curtains, etc.... anything to absorb some of the sound and keep it from bouncing into the singers mic.
 
Jouni said:
The OTHER prob... the vocals are feedbacking like crazy!!! ...If we drop the volume, or turn the cabs away from singer he cant hear himself... any angle on THAT.. besides the obvious, which I thought of just now... headphones to the singer.. :o
Click to expand...
If headphones are not a viable option for you, sometimes all it takes to cut the feedback on vocals is to shelf down or otherwise EQ cut some of the high freqs out of the monitor send for the vocals; its usually the high freqs that are feeding back.

G.
 
again to the headphones.. you can turn the guitars down, and NOT run monitors and you'll have NO feedback and much less bleed.
 
If I read your post right, you are trying to record your practice sessions? Is this for referance or for demo purposes? If the recordings are for reference you can simply record mono (you can be sure that if it sounds good mono it will be fine live.) If the guitar is phasing in the vocal mic(s) you might try just using the vocal mic(s) rather than micing the amp. Recording practice sessions in a small room is cloce to impossible without a lot of bleedover and some phasing issues.
 
Not clear on what you're doing. Are you recording practice sessions for analyzing your playing, sound, and mix? If so, you may want to go with a stereo pair of mics only, placed to capture the whole band and PA.
Are you making a demo from practice sessions? If so, I'd suggest saving the beer money for a month and booking a cheap studio to do it. Otherwise, consider doing two takes, first a stereo track of all instruments live, then a stereo track of all vocals live. It's still representitive of your live sound, but gives you the vocal seperation you need and aren't getting with your space and gear.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

Yes these are at the moment for reference purposes,
(and practice for me since we're probably soon gonna record for a demoalbum...)
Yes, mono would do for overall performance evaluation... but I'm facing two guitarists who want themselves on separate sides so they can hearthemselves.... Yeps, I'm knee-deep in da shit....
A stereo-pair works somewhat good, but someone always nagging for lack of kicks, snare, or separation of guitars...

Well, I'm at least getting good trainig if I need ever to mix a gig...

Aaaa.. added point.. I'm also listening this on a bunch of dudes for their opinions, that's why the consern.. But I'll just keep hacking on with your advices. :D
 
I don't know if this will help you, but it can't hurt. Back in the late 70s, the Dead used a system of noise cancelling microphones. Basically, you use two of the exact same mics, taped together. You put the sound source only into the top one, and run them to the board 180 degrees out of phase. Any noise sources reach both mics equally, and cancel each other out. Mostly.

Feedback can be a real problem in a small space, as I'm sure you can attest to. Gobos are useful, wall treatments somewhat less so, eq will help but I hate to lose anything that comes in the mics. Headphones or earbuds may also be a solution, as has been mentioned here. If you are using directional mics, use their pattern to eliminate as much leakage as you can, and roll off low end on anything you aren't needing it on. Using a combination of these techniques ought to make the problem less intolerable at least...if worse comes to worse, drink until it doesn't seem like such a problem anymore.
 
Flangerhans said:
I don't know if this will help you, but it can't hurt. Back in the late 70s, the Dead used a system of noise cancelling microphones. Basically, you use two of the exact same mics, taped together. You put the sound source only into the top one, and run them to the board 180 degrees out of phase. Any noise sources reach both mics equally, and cancel each other out. Mostly.
Click to expand...

this isn't going to help whatsoever.
 
is the singer going to be out of tune if he doesn't have a monitor?

i mean..really..c'mone.
 
How do you know that, Trey? What do you base your assumption on? Have you tried this, in this situation? I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but I'd like to know what the drawbacks to this technique are.
 
Flangerhans said:
I don't know if this will help you, but it can't hurt. Back in the late 70s, the Dead used a system of noise cancelling microphones. Basically, you use two of the exact same mics, taped together. You put the sound source only into the top one, and run them to the board 180 degrees out of phase. Any noise sources reach both mics equally, and cancel each other out. Mostly.
Click to expand...
they went through all that because no one was sober enough to put the PA system in front of the band. The Mains were behind the band with the vocal mics pointing right at it.
 
Use floor monitors and the previous suggestions for the feedback problem. In a small room a good vocalist shouldn't need much amplification if any. Alot of musicians just want to play loud which sounds like the guitar players you have. You can make it loud just for them by putting the headphones on them with their own individual mixes cranked up to their liking. Hopefully, you have a drummer that understands that you can play soft in a small room and still sound good. If not, throw some hand towels over his drums to tame him. Be prepared for the argument and just tell him playing soft = no towels. Good luck with the politics.
 
Jouni said:
Micing shit up in a small room with shit gear isn't easy..
(as you can hear here:

...big file...)
Click to expand...

59MB big!!!
How long is that. Something like an hour. Is that your whole practice?
Edit it! :P

Eck
 
I am just listening to the record. Do you really think your "singer" (better term would be vomitter) needs to hear himself?
Ok the band needs to hear him too to know where in the song they are.. :-)

I suggest just using much lower volumes, maybe putting some carpet over the guitar boxes.

PS the drummer should be much more precise
 
ecktronic said:
59MB big!!!
How long is that. Something like an hour. Is that your whole practice?
Edit it! :P

Eck
Click to expand...

Just 'Open URL' in Windows Media Player and it'll stream.

If you're using Linux or Mac I can't help ;]
 
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