Guitar tone.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Chewie
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Chewie

Chewie

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I've been recently asked to help a band record some stuf. Today and the other guy were playing around with getting a good distortion tone.

He's looking for a kinda Staind Linkin Park thing.
We tried the Digitech Metal Monster (I think that's the name) and the Boss DS-1. We also tried using the Revalver plugin.

We were using a 10watt amp and micing it.

Is there anyone who can give me some ideas?
I fid the tone we got too hollow, that's the only way I can describe it. It didn't seem full. Like something was missing.
 
Chewie said:
I've been recently asked to help a band record some stuf. Today and the other guy were playing around with getting a good distortion tone.

He's looking for a kinda Staind Linkin Park thing.
We tried the Digitech Metal Monster (I think that's the name) and the Boss DS-1. We also tried using the Revalver plugin.

We were using a 10watt amp and micing it.

Is there anyone who can give me some ideas?
I fid the tone we got too hollow, that's the only way I can describe it. It didn't seem full. Like something was missing.
Click to expand...

For starters I'd ditch the 10 watt amp, it isn't gonna get you anywhere close to what your looking for. Ideally you'd want a dual or triple rectifier through a
4 or 2x12 marshall cab. If this isn't an option, at least get your hands on a solid 1 or 2x12 and mic er up. Personally I find a miced 2x12 in combinatation with the simulanalog JCM 900 plug http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm gets me a solid new school metal sound.

If your lazy, just scratch everything I just wrote and plug into a pod xt. :D
 
What of Revalver? It looks like it could do the job but I don't know how to use it. All the 'equipment' it uses are all foreign to me. If only I knew how to use it but it seems hardly anyone uses it.
 
Ok I'm checking out the simulanalog thing but it's VST. Do you have any recommendations for a DX host for VST plugins? I'm working with both Acid and Audition.
 
Chewie said:
What of Revalver? ... it seems hardly anyone uses it.
Click to expand...

There's a reason why. I personally have not used Revalver, but I've played around with similar software and have not been excited about any of it.

The best guitar tones come from real amps that have been miced well in nice sounding rooms, with good players attached to them.

If you're on a budget, I'd go w/ a POD or something of that ilk. That's the cheapest way to a similar tone.

A
 
From the little I've learned so far, any distortion is better than no distortion,

SO, you want to turn your amp as loud as it will go so that the amp and the speakers can distort.
 
Alternative to the POD

I have acheived my best tone so far by using a Sans Amp TRI-O.D. miked with a 57 using my LP Mahogany w/ EMG's.. I can get very close to the Linkin Park sound with that combo..

I tried all the so called "Metal" pedals and they all suck.. The Sans Amp distortion is the closest sound to an actual amp distortion I have found.. The Mesa emulation is incredible..
 
gvarko said:
The Sans Amp distortion is the closest sound to an actual amp distortion I have found.
Click to expand...

I would agree w/ that. I prefer the SansAmp stuff to any modeler I've heard so far.

A
 
Chewie said:
Digitech Metal Monster
Click to expand...


I would bet money that I could make a 10 watt amp sound like a triple rectifier. (its called layering tracks) As for this pedal? I haven't used it, but by the sound of the name (and the manufacturer), I would suggest trying to use gain/distortion setting at UNDER halfway. Maybe even as low as 9 o'clock depending on how much there is. Less is more when you are capturing distortion.

Plus LAYER your tracks. 2 guitars on the left and two on the right of the same riff overdubbed will thicken it up.

-then crank the gain setting for the solo. ;)
 
Sorry...

Outlaws said:
As for this pedal? I haven't used it, but by the sound of the name (and the manufacturer), I would suggest trying to use gain/distortion setting at UNDER halfway.
Click to expand...

If it's the Digitech Metal Master or Death Metal pedal there is no gain control.. It's full out gain all the time.. The Metal Master has a Morph knob that will give some different tones, but still with full out gain...
 
Outlaws said:
I would bet money that I could make a 10 watt amp sound like a triple rectifier. (its called layering tracks)

I'd definately love to hear this. I've heard this statement before but I've never actually heard anyone get even close to doing it convincingly. Even with clever micing technique and slick eqing a 10 watt amp layered just sounds like a layered 10 watt amp to me. Now for straight rock and blues, I've done it with nothing more than a soldano practice amp, but we're talking the high gain stuff here and I've never heard this done successfully. So prove me wrong..... :p
Click to expand...
 
Clit Torres said:
Outlaws said:
I would bet money that I could make a 10 watt amp sound like a triple rectifier. (its called layering tracks)

I'd definately love to hear this. I've heard this statement before but I've never actually heard anyone get even close to doing it convincingly. Even with clever micing technique and slick eqing a 10 watt amp layered just sounds like a layered 10 watt amp to me. Now for straight rock and blues, I've done it with nothing more than a soldano practice amp, but we're talking the high gain stuff here and I've never heard this done successfully. So prove me wrong..... :p
Click to expand...


See, here is the thing...
What does wattage have to do with anything?

Less watts for a tube means its going to breakup at less of a volume. But the tube saturation will still be there.
-But lets assume we are not talking about a tube amp because we probably are not.

Less watts for a solid state means the over all volume isn't as loud. But a 100watt solid state isn't going to sound much different from its 10watt counterpart.

So I must ask, when you state that a 10 watt amp isn't going to sound like a dual or triple recifier, how does 10 watts have anything to do with it?
Click to expand...
 
Outlaws said:
See, here is the thing...
What does wattage have to do with anything?

Less watts for a tube means its going to breakup at less of a volume. But the tube saturation will still be there.
-But lets assume we are not talking about a tube amp because we probably are not.

Less watts for a solid state means the over all volume isn't as loud. But a 100watt solid state isn't going to sound much different from its 10watt counterpart.

So I must ask, when you state that a 10 watt amp isn't going to sound like a dual or triple recifier, how does 10 watts have anything to do with it?
Click to expand...

For one, 10 watt practice amps generally have an 8 inch speaker, which makes a difference. And second I've yet to hear a 10 watt amp that doesn't break up at higher volume/gain level. The reason I think buddy should scrap it is because he's not gonna get the lusciously heavy sound he's looking for no matter how much he layers it.
 
I did stick with the Digitech and got a sound that was ok but you're right. It's not exactly what I want.
 
Clit Torres said:
For starters I'd ditch the 10 watt amp, it isn't gonna get you anywhere close to what your looking for. Ideally you'd want a dual or triple rectifier through a
4 or 2x12 marshall cab. If this isn't an option, at least get your hands on a solid 1 or 2x12 and mic er up. Personally I find a miced 2x12 in combinatation with the simulanalog JCM 900 plug http://www.simulanalog.org/guitarsuite.htm gets me a solid new school metal sound.

If your lazy, just scratch everything I just wrote and plug into a pod xt. :D
Click to expand...
I second the JCM 900 plug!
 
Just another thought here.....

I am guessing that the 10watt practice amp has an ext speaker output...???
If so, speand $200 on a Behringer cab and plug it in. They don't sound great but there will be a huge sound improvement overall......

I've seen this in studios and live apps many a time.....

Lee.
 
OK simplest answer is to use the gear that the bands you mention are using. Almost all of the Nu-metal bands are sporting the Dual or Triple rectifiers tracked multiple times on their albums. They all use this amp because it has a specific sound. Getting a Rectifier is probably not an option so theres no easy solution.
As everyone has stated, use less gain than what you think you should and double up the guitars. It is possible to get huge sounds from small amps. It takes more experimentation but it can be done.
Also the bands you mention are all tuned down. This plays a big factor in the tone/sound of the guitars as well. Don't overlook that part.
 
Outlaws said:
Plus LAYER your tracks. 2 guitars on the left and two on the right of the same riff overdubbed will thicken it up.
Click to expand...

That's the answer right there
 
If the 10 watt amp you are using is solid state,... forget about getting any good tones out of it,.... if not,.... then something other than an 8" speaker is called for in rounding out the tone,.... if you have anything else to plug the output into,... prefering, of course, something with at least a single 12",... or better yet, a pair of em,... and make sure they are a decent quality speaker,.... the tones you get are directly related to the signal chain,... if there are any questionable componants in it, the sound you end up with will suffer.....


best you can afford is always a choice you should make...

By the way,... I am building some nice 8-15 watt class A tube amps, so I happen to know about what the tone thing is, and how to change it,..... or make it into something that sounds like a much bigger unit,....


The recordings of some of the greatest clasics Rock and Roll has ever known were done with small low wattage tube amps,.....


Steve
 
One thing here, if you want a very heavy, chuncky, metal sound, then scoop your mid ranges out.
 
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