guitar tone tricks

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grn

grn

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how do you set up when recording an electric guitar, mic'ing the amp?

professional recordings sound like they are clean (even when distorted) and they are perfectly spaced, with the right amount of depth. I have a Shure SM57 a Studio Projects B1 and a matched pair of Oktava MK012's...

I have been usin the Shure, but what is the ideal placement? 6 inches away and at a 45 degree angle towards the speaker cone? what tricks do you know?
 
so many what ifs... Before someone can help you out let us know what kinda amp you've got, the tone your shooting for, and the acoustics of the room.

In my experience I've found 3-6 inches off a speaker at a 45 degree near the center of the cone to be a good starting pointing. From there I will adjust the brightness/warmth depending on the tone I'm looking for. I also adjust the distance from the speaker depending on how much air I wanna push before it reaches the mic. Also remember to take your amp off the ground and set it on a stool or chair. You'll get a truer representation of how the amp sounds.
After you get the the 57 set right. Then go to the condenser. I usually start around 6 feet back centered on the cabinet. Then Ill blend the two signals to taste. Really the best advice I can give is that you need to first concentrate on getting the best tone possible through the guitar and amp. From there concentrate on proper mic placement. It will take patience (It has taken me as long as two hours of moving around a mic to get the sound I wanted.) Get the tone you desire on tape as you record not later by "fixing it in the mix" Trust me...it will make your life a hell of alot easier.
 
Yea, a good amp with the right settings will get you about 80-90% of the way there. Good mic selection and technique is useful, don't get me wrong, but there really aren't any great secrets to it all as far as I can tell. A 57 on the grille is likely responsible for most of your favorite recordings. :D
 
I'm using a marshall anniverserie mostly these days, ... no matter what genre, or sound i'm looking for, i mostly end up with putting my B1 infront of one speaker, 2" away, little bit off accis.
I suggest you put every mic on a stand, solo one mic and send it trought a headphone while playing. You put every mic the way they sound optimal. Then you record half a minute, get back behind the knobs and pick out your favourite track.
You might also want to use an extra room mic, but watch out for phase problems !

grreetz, fazil
 
Getting a great tone from the amp while it's in the air [as in on a barstool or a road case... as in not sitting on the floor] is 95% of the battle. Once you have a great sound in the room... record it [it ain't rocket surgery]... the key is to have a great source tone to record.
 
yes, absolutely you must elevate that amp somehow. nothing sucks tone out of amps (or drums, for that matter) more than sitting them on the floor.

next, you have to have a great sound coming out of the amp to begin with. i'm a firm believer that tone is in the fingers foremost.......once you get great tone from the fingers, guitar and amp, and it really doesn't matter exactly what you throw in front of it. beyond all, make sure that it sounds good in the room first........if it sounds like crap in the room, it'll sound like crap on tape.

i really like the B1 on amps. i think that's one of its strongest points, actually. between that and the 57, you should be able to get a plenty good recording, assuming you have everything else under control.

no one can tell you exactly how you need to position the mics--you'll have to find that out for yourself through experimentation, but as a rule i generally start with the 57 on the grille, about 1/2 between the middle and edge of the cone, and off axis about 30 degrees and tweak to taste. the B1 i usually stick about 3ft back of the amp (or wherever it sounds "great" to my ears in the room), and be careful of the levels. i guess you could say the B1 is the room mic.

i've also really been digging my RE38 on amps lately.......very fat sound out of it--complements the 57 and B1 pretty well.


also be aware of mic spacing and potential phase problems. if it sounds "thin", flip the phase on one of the mics and see if that helps any.


one of the things you'll notice is that multiple mics on an amp may end up sounding muddy. some of the most classic recorded guitar tracks are actually very thin when you really listen to em, and they were multi-tracked.....meaning that the player has played the part several times and the final mix is a combination of all of the performances. doing this will "fatten" up your guitar "track" a lot more than sticking 3 or 4 mics in front of an amp and playing it once......but it takes a talented guitarist or at least one who's practiced the part so much they can play it in their sleep.


cheers,
wade
 
Sennheiser MD421 always gives me the tone I need.

I have tried a few different dynamics and condensers on guitar cabs (never had the opportunity to use a ribbon) and it always seems to change the sound very unpleasantly. I don't see why people like the sm57 on guitar cabinets so much, it's really hard to work with. If I get a good sound out of the amp in the first place, it seems i'll most definitely get a good sound with the MD421.

T
 
well.....i lied. i don't use sm57's. :D i use the older Unidyne 545's. i find them to be a little "grittier" than the 57's, and the one US-made one i have (compared to my two Mexican made ones) has a really beefy, meaty tone.

plus, you've also gotta remember that 57's really change with loading and the preamps you use em with (as do the 545's). my 545's sound really thin when used with a Mackie pre, but when used through my VTB1 or Symm528, the beef up dramatically. especially on the VTB1 when i switch the impedence loading from 150 to 50......it's like it's a completely different mic.

i've also used sennheiser e835's (vocal dynamics) on amps. i like them a lot too. they've got a completely different tone than the 58/57's do and on my voice the 835 is better (it tames that nasally honkiness i have), and i find that it sometimes translates to some guitar tones, amps, etc., better than a 57 does.


bottom line, there's no silver bullet--you've gotta experiment and find something that works for you and the song......and chances are, just b/c it works once is no guarantee it'll work every time.


cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112 said:
well.....i lied. i don't use sm57's. :D i use the older Unidyne 545's. i find them to be a little "grittier" than the 57's, and the one US-made one i have (compared to my two Mexican made ones) has a really beefy, meaty tone.
Click to expand...
I have a couple of US 545s around here, but I only know where one is at the moment.

Is it my imagination, or do these have an extremely low output compared to other dynamics?
 
<< it my imagination, or do these have an extremely low output compared to other dynamics? >>


not in my experience.....they seem to be on par with the 58's and senn 835's i've got. of course, i generally only use my 545's on louder sources (amps, snare, toms, etc), and rarely on vocals or other "quieter" sources......but output's been more or less consistent across all three (the US does seem a tad hotter--but that could be the "meatier" sound i was referring to) and they haven't required any more gain than the senns or 58s when i've used those in the same roles.

if anyone's got any good, working US 545's that they wanna unload for a reasonable price, holler at me--i could use a couple more.


cheers,
wade
 
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