Guitar Intonation Question

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Sabu

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I recently bought a cheap Silvertone Revolver electric guitar to facilitate home recording. I was doing a demo of a song that uses lots of open chord playing, and upon playback, noticed things didn't sound quite right. I intonated the guitar to the best of my ability (doing the 12th fret/open string/12th fret harmonic tuning thing) and thought "OK done!"...but open chords still did not sound quite right. Any open strings within the chord sound slightly off. I have a chromatic tuner, so I checked the tuning at various frets and sure enough, using the A string as an example (previously intonated so that the open and 12th fret notes are in perfect tune), notes such as the 3rd fret C are approximately +10 cent sharp. I'm currently reading about how most guitars won't be in absolute perfect tune due to the nature of equal temperment and that, in fact, many guitars play slightly sharp in the first few frets. I don't know if my hearing has improved over the years, but +10 cent sharpness is too much for me. I'm also reading about nut compensation but don't quite understand it at the moment. If I was to modify the nut, would I be chipping out a bit of plastic on the fretboard side for compensation? I could always return the guitar, but I figure since it was made in some Indonesian factory on a machine, all of the Revolver models will have the same intonation characteristics. I also don't mind doing my own modifications, since the guitar was inexpensive and I'd like to learn more about guitar construction and such for my own personal enlightenment. For the same reasons, I don't want to spend $30 on a set-up at a shop. That's about a fifth of the cost of the guitar. I'm reading about the "Earvana Guitar Nut" at the moment and perhaps I could use something like this. Is installing a nut fairly straightforward? Does it just involve prying the old one out and glueing in a new one? Or maybe I just need thicker strings? They seem pretty thin, but then again, all guitar strings feel thin to me (as I am primarily a bass player) :D

Any help is appreciated!
 
I use the Earvana nut and it worked well for me. However your tuning data (+10 at third fret) sounds more like fret location or something else than simple tuning.

Wrong gauge strings can cause some issues here, but I'm guessing that is not the case here. Same for nut height being too high, which causes you to press the string down further in first few frets and notes go sharp.

Use your tuner to check all the strings at the third fret. See if others are off by a similar margin. Bad fretwork would seem to make all wrong, whereas if only A string is off, it is more likely nut height or something else.

Ed
 
Don't know where you're from but set ups around here are about $60. Sounds to me like you got what you paid for- a cheap-o guitar-o. I'd doubt the intonation would cause problems that close to the nut. I'd take it back and get a real guitar, seriously.
 
Sirnothingness said:
Don't know where you're from but set ups around here are about $60. Sounds to me like you got what you paid for- a cheap-o guitar-o. I'd doubt the intonation would cause problems that close to the nut. I'd take it back and get a real guitar, seriously.
Click to expand...

$60 around here gets a set-up at a good luthier, but the local music shops are about $20-30. I know the guitar is cheap but I don't mind fiddling with it to learn how to set up a guitar. I put thicker-gauge strings on, which meant cutting into the nut a bit (and also lowering it slightly by doing so) and adjusting the truss rod. The cheapness of the guitar allowed me to do this without concern. I would never do that do my old-school Stingray...

Anyway, after various changes, I got any sharpness down to +3 cent. There's still a few trouble spots but overall it's in much better shape and more playable. Thanks for the tips!
 
Elmo89m said:
what do you guys mean by setup?
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Set string height at bridge.
Adjust truss rod if necessary.
Set pickup height and adjust pole pieces if necessary.
Set intonation.
 
i dont mean to take over this thread but i dont see the point of starting a new one. I just got a 98 les paul studio off of ebay that obviously hasnt been played in a while. Should i definitly get this "set-up"?
 
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Yes. But first, decide on which guage of strings you want to use since changing string guage will effect the set up.
 
ggunn said:
Set string height at bridge.
Adjust truss rod if necessary.
Set pickup height and adjust pole pieces if necessary.
Set intonation.
Click to expand...

That misses a few steps, including the one which will most likely fix the original problem, which is adjusting the nut slots. The most likely problem (most likely, I said, not the only possible) is that the nut slots are too high, which will, among other things, cause first possition intonation problems.

But then, you get what you pay for, you know? Get a $20 set up, and they are not going to get to everything. Most guys doing $20 set ups probably don't even own a set of nut files.




Elmo89m said:
i dont mean to take over this thread but i dont see the point of starting a new one. I just got a 98 les paul studio off of ebay that obviously hasnt been played in a while. Should i definitly get this "set-up"?
Click to expand...


Yes. Take it to a professional, and have tehm set it up for you. It will play and sound better.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Elmo89m said:
i dont mean to take over this thread but i dont see the point of starting a new one. I just got a 98 les paul studio off of ebay that obviously hasnt been played in a while. Should i definitly get this "set-up"?
Click to expand...

If it were mine (assuming no obvious problems) I'd first put new strings on it, the gauge I usually use, and try it out for a few days. That way you get a pretty clear picture of what you are starting with. Since strings cost about $5, that's a cheap test.

If all is well, you're done. If not, then go the setup route.

If an initial exam shows clear problems with nut height, truss rod, or intonation, then the setup route from the start saves $5 and a few days.

Ed
 
i did get new strings and ive been playing with them for about 8 hours in the l ast couple of days. I dont think anything is wrong but i cant really tell i guess. I just figure that if it is that old that setting it up would be something i should do
 
NP sirnothingness, I should've mentioned more in my post about why I didn't mind a cheap guitar. I just needed an electric twanger for the dominant 7th and 9th chords in my funk music.

Light, you are correct in saying u get what u pay for regarding setups...I took my Stingray bass to 2 different places before deciding to set it up myself ('cep the truss rod, it still scares me a little :D ). the last place totally botched the bridge and the guy actually said "I know these basses, and that bridge is not original!" and of course, the bridge is original. next setup goes to the $60 luthier for sure
 
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