Guitar amp Sound clips using e609 & SM75...

WERNER 1 · Apr 7, 2006

While I'm in the mood for posting clips, I thought I'd give some special thanks to everyone on here who put up with all of my noobie questions when I was tyring to figure out what to buy 3 years ago when I was just starting to put things together for my home studio... THANKS!!!!!!!!

While I have a LONG way to go in learning how to record things, I"ve been really bearing down on guitar sounds as that's my main focus right now. I think I've come up with a pretty tried and true way to get a good sound almost everytime (IMO

)

All of these clips were basically recorded the same way: 2 mic's (e609 blackface original mid cone straight on, and an SM57 placed mid cone at about a 45 deg. off axis.) I don't recall which mic is one the left and which is on the right, but they are on different channels.

On the first two I was tinkering around with some panning techniques, but the rest are all normal. There is no EQ'ing or compresson.

Effects- I sometimes use a Boss DD-3 in the loop, or I'll some delay and reverb after I've recorded the track.

Either way, these clips give a true representation as to what I was actually hearing coming out of the cab.......which has all ways eluded me in the past

PhilGood · Apr 7, 2006

Dammit! Now I gotta go buy an e609!

THANKS!!!! :mad:

PhilGood · Apr 7, 2006

What were your pre's, BTW?

Jacobi1211 · Apr 7, 2006

sounds damn good. i listened to the first and second one. in the second one there is come clipping on the palm mutes. sounds really really good overall especially for no EQing. good placement has a lot to do with that!!!

Jacob

cominginsecond · Apr 7, 2006

PhilGood said:
Dammit! Now I gotta go buy an e609!

THANKS!!!!

I'm selling one for $80 shipped.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=195022

WERNER 1 · Apr 7, 2006

Thanks guys!!!

Yes, you will find some clipping in there from time to time as I have a bad habbit of trying to get the absolute hottest signal I can.......some times I'm a bit over zelous.

Sorry, didn't post the signal chain:

Guitar/amp/cab/e609 & SM57/ DMP3/Delta 1010/ CEP 2.0

Keep in mind that the e609 I'm using is one of the original blackface ones that used to run like 250.00 or so. I got a couple of these new on ebay for like 130 ea. I believe that they sound different than the newer (cheaper) silver faced ones. There were some threads on here a while back describing the differences and what not.

What's the best way to avoid the clipping on the really intense parts??? (Like palm muting and stuff??) I really don't like turning the level down, since most of the track is well with in the normal range, and it only peaks/clips everyonce in a while -----would some light compression cover this??

Rick

cominginsecond · Apr 7, 2006

WERNER 1 said:
Keep in mind that the e609 I'm using is one of the original blackface ones that used to run like 250.00 or so.

Oops. I guess that's not what I'm selling.

Jacobi1211 · Apr 7, 2006

maybe try backing off the mids a little on your amp. this works for me. kinda sucks cause that will change your sound a little, but sometimes we must give a little to get a little. i do the same thing quite often i hate to admit... but, it helps with signal/noise ratio...unless you just have a noisy mic... and that's no good. compression could work if you have a compressor pedal or as long as you compress it before it gets to the interface, because that's most likely where and why it is clipping. by the way, what amp, cab, and distortion??? just wondering...

Jacob

mrface2112 · Apr 7, 2006

WERNER 1 said:
Keep in mind that the e609 I'm using is one of the original blackface ones that used to run like 250.00 or so.

yep, totally different animal than the e609 silver. the "blackface" 609 sounds a lot more like the old sennheiser 409's.

WERNER 1 said:
would some light compression cover this??

depends on where it's clipping. if you're clipping the mic pre, turn the gain on the pre down some and compress after the fact to bring everything back up. if you're clipping the converters going into the computer, you can compress on the way in.

i'd recommend turning the pre's gain down some and compressing after the fact. that way you're not stuck with the compressed track forever.

cheers,
wade

WERNER 1 · Apr 7, 2006

I'm pretty sure it's clipping on the pre's (DMP-3), and I'm sure it would be a quick fix to just turn the "knob" down just a hair. It's just that it appears that the bulk of the track (wave form) is a long way from peaking/clipping, and it's just those few spikes that throw it into the red. :mad:

I just was trying to find a way to bring the spikes down with out effecting the rest of the signal.

I do have a couple of DBX 163 compressors (Sorry, I'm not very familiar with compressor and exactly how to use them

)

So compressing will actually bring up the over all signal to a degree??? :confused:

.....how's that work??

I REALLY don't want to start EQ'ing the amp as the whole point of my recordings is to give (and get ) a true representation of what I'm (you'd) hear standing infront of the cab.........so far I've been pretty successfull in my attempts.

Amps and gear:.......that's a very long question to answer!!

Here's my amps:

Guitars:

I always use the amps natural distortion (tube driven) for all of my heavier sounds. I do have a few OD and clean boost pedals that I use from time to time on my clean channels.

Pedal board:

Each sound clip has which amp is used in the title......well usually

Typically I use these though:

Carvin V3
Carvin Legacy
Carvin Quad X (All tube 4 channel Pre w/ Boogie 50/50 poweramp)
Carvin Belair (Modded)

Yeah, ...I like Carvin amps :cool:

Rick

mrface2112 · Apr 7, 2006

first off, that's a nice collection of axes and amps!

WERNER 1 said:
I just was trying to find a way to bring the spikes down with out effecting the rest of the signal.

unfortunately, that's not gonna be all that possible. you need to do one of the following: 1) stop the "spikes" from happening at the guitar (maybe via technique or changing the part?). 2) stop the spikes from clipping the preamp (turn down the guitar/amp or compress).

compressing *will* affect the rest of the signal. that's what compression does. turning down the gain/volume somewhere else (amp or preamp) will also affect the rest of the signal as well.

WERNER 1 said:
So compressing will actually bring up the over all signal to a degree??? .....how's that work??

i'm going to speak VERY generally and gloss over what compression does. for more detailed analysis, do some searching around here and you'll find LOTS of explanations on "how" compression works.

but in a nutshell, compression limits your dynamic range (the louds and softs)......and in essence can "tame" a spike, based on the settings you provide to the compressor (threshold, attack, release, ratio, etc). in taming the spike, it allows you to bring up the rest of the signal since that spike is no longer there. one could say that compression can be used to even out an otherwise "spiky" signal.

for example, here's your uncompressed signal--the "a" is the regular level and "A" is a spike.

aaaaaaaaaaAaaaaaaaaAaaaaAAAaaaaaa

when you run this signal through a compressor, you effectively change the "A" (spikes) into an "a"--or at least less of an "A". so you get: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

therefore, since the signal is more even (in terms of level), you could also interpret the "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" as "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA".

note that compression can be very noticible--it can have a sonic signature, and if used improperly, it could really make things sound bad. it can also take the feel/life out of the playing due to it limiting the dynamic range--your louds and softs aren't nearly as loud or soft.

WERNER 1 said:
the whole point of my recordings is to give (and get ) a true representation of what I'm (you'd) hear standing infront of the cab........

that's certainly one approach. another approach is to tailor the sound at the amp so that it fits within a very narrow sonic space so that it best fits the track.

take for instance a typical busy rock mix with several guitars (lead, rhythm and acoustic), bass, vocals, keys, drums, percussion and backing vocals. the vocals, guitars, some of the drums and the keys are all going to compete for the same sonic landscape in the mix--they all occupy about the same frequency range.

in this case, you probably won't need (or want) the guitar to be as full as it can be, as it'll trample on everything else in that frequency range and will very likely muddy up the whole mix.

likewise, the low end of the guitar will clash/compete with the upper registers of the bass guitar for space in the mix. it will probably also compete with the kick and snare drums.

simply put, you may need a very narrowly eq'd guitar in the mix rather than an extremely full sounding guitar. in fact, i'd wager that most of the guitars we're used to hearing in most of our favorite songs have been somewhat radically eq'd at one point or another.

now, the question becomes do you eq it at the amp or do you eq it in the mix? the answer is that you do what the track needs. usually i eq at the amp and record the sound i want in the track rather than recording a full range guitar and eqing it later. but that's me--YMMV.

if your mixes don't have a lot of instruments that compete for the same sonic landscape, then you might be perfectly fine with a "full-range" guitar track. personally, i rarely find that to be the case.

hope this helps some!

cheers,
wade

WERNER 1 · Apr 7, 2006

hmmmmmmm... there's a lot to ponder there

Everyday I think I'm getting that much closer to doing a "good recording", I find out just how off bass I really am

Thanks for all of the input and info!!

I've mostly just been recording these guitar clips thus far.......using them as a learning process and stepping stone to move on to more involved recordings. Next up are vocals (I posted a test clip in this forum), Drums, and acoustic guitars.

Mixing all this together sounds like it's going to be a trick with all the eq'ing that apparrently needs to be done so that each item has it's own "space" in the mix......

Heck, I'll be glad to figure out how to use the software (CEP) to record more than two track at a time!

Rick

Jacobi1211 · Apr 7, 2006

well for starters... what interface do you have??? if you're not using a multi-in firewire interface, you'll only get two tracks. left and right.

Jacob

WERNER 1 · Apr 8, 2006

Here's my signal chain that I posted earlier in the thread:

Guitar/amp/cab/e609 & SM57/ DMP3/Delta 1010/ CEP 2.0

The M-Audio Delta 1010 has a "Breakout box" which allows for 8 in and 8 out..........So I have the ability to do 8 tracks at the same time......in theory

I only have 6 channels of mic pre's right now: (2) - Delta DMP-3's, and (2) - Studio Projects VTB-1's.

I figured I'd never get to the point where I'd be recording a whole band at one time, and that 6 channels for drums would be sufficent (yes/no??)

Rick

Guitar amp Sound clips using e609 & SM75...

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