GT33 v's SP C4 & GT55 - Opinions Please

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Mr Funk

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Hi folks

I know I'm always asking for opinions on mics. Oh well, creature of habbit I surpose?

I am on the hunt for a low cost pair of SD condensers for bongos and other general duties and was all but ready to buy a pair ADK £49 SC-T's (Turnkey) until JP said he hoped to improve on the design soon, as he thought them to be a little too noisy for critical studio work (but very good non the less).

So, as most of you will know (All UK peeps anyway), Digital Village are selling Groove Tube mics for very little at the mo and the GT33's are going for £239 for a matched pair and although a lot more than the ADK's, they seem good value? The only other contenders are the Studio Projects C4 set at £279, the Rode NT5's at £259 and a pair of Oktava's (single caps) for £269?

Now i know that the GT33 is a MD condenser, but that doesn't bother me, so has anyone out there used them and for what purpose and with what results?

I am also thinking about grabbing a GT55 for £129!!! I already have an SP C1 (which I like), do you know how different these two mics sound? I'm hoping the 55 may be a little more mellow?

I intend getting a tube when finance permits!

Thanks for any advice.
 
Fletcher at Mercenary has said that he is growing fonder of the GT44 mics with each use. If you could pick up some GT44's I am pretty sure you'll be happy. If not go for the 33's? It is a good value seeing as one mic here costs $279

The thing that bothers me with the C4's (personally having never tried them) is that they roll of the bass until like 500hz according to thier frequency plots. With that said, they could be the perfect overhead and acoustic mic BECAUSE of that. Who knows, it is just I am waiting to read a couple reviews before I jump on them.

Personally, I am very much like my SP B-1. If you can pick up a pair of those for cheap you won't regret it. I like them very much for overheads.

Beez
 
Thanks

Yeah, I often contempate getting a pair os SP B-1's. I've used them and like em a lot in terms of their neutrality. A pair would only be £130!

As for the GT44's, I would like a pair, but at £400, they are not as tempting as the similar voiced 33's at only £239.

I must admit, I am swaying towards getting the GT55 after reading a few reviews. At £129, it has to be worth it? One user review did actually compare it to a C1 and said that it was warmer and fuller, which is what I was hoping for! You can even buy a pair of these for £239 as well! The only thing I'm worried about is how noisy it is? I think I found the specs, but it was courupted! I think it said 22dB, which seems very high?

May be for now, I'll get the 55 and a pair of MXL 603's or B1's or even the AC-T's and then but a apir of C4's or GT33's when I'm working again?
 
I luuuuuuuuurve my MXL 603's - low cost, nice sound!!! If cash is tight, they're a winner. I don't know if the situation has changed (or what the deal is with import duties etc., but from what I remember of UK MXL pricing, it may be cheaper to ship them from the US. I did that and paid less for a pair with cables than I would have for only one 603 from Australia (there's no distributor here in New Zealand). It cost me about 110 pounds all up!

Not a lot more than your ADK's, and a hell of a lot less than the others. Am I a bottom feeder - yes. But do they sound great - yep! I've had no issues with noise.

Steve
 
Regarding some of the comments on the C4's, unfortunately, those plots are old, and as you know, we are not to swift about updating our site and other things in a timely manner. We are just to busy makin more gear, but you would be correct if you base your comments on the old plots.

The new version Cardiod capsule is better and the rolloff is not steep at all until after 100Hz. They are steep when you engage the filter, but that is what is supposed to happen. All C4's are of the new version. Those plots were done on the first capsule designs last year. SO please do not make your decision on them.

You also have to remember, all the other competitive mics do not offer the extra Omni capsules like we do. The C4's is like getting four mics, you just can only use two at a time. The value is quite good, and the sound is even better.

In the end, use your ears! :)
 
Well get those new plots up. The old ones are really scary! Let me just say though that if the *new* C4's are as good as the rest of the C series I'll be getting a pair really soon.

Also let me just say that I am impressed more by the B-1's every time I use them. I haven't found anything they don't sound at least pretty good on. Its just too bad they don't have a -10db pad. I have to use them almost 6 feet away for guitar amp. Even at that distance they still sound good though.

You know if you would like to send me a pair to evaluate, I would be happy to :). I'll probably buy them later anyway. Hell, I'll even do a shootout between the C4, MXL603, B-1, C-1, and a U87. How would that be for a review?? :)

Beez
 
Beezoboy said:
I am impressed more by the B-1's every time I use them. I haven't found anything they don't sound at least pretty good on. Its just too bad they don't have a -10db pad. I have to use them almost 6 feet away for guitar amp. Even at that distance they still sound good though.
Beez
Click to expand...

Well if we put the pad on, it costs more. The SM57 and 58 do not have them, and what I really was trying to acheive was to build a LD mic that was great on everything at a very low cost. I had hoped the B1 would gain ground after being listened to, and become the SM57 of LD mics...A general do all great sounding mic.

Of course there are things an LD condenser does that a SD Dynamic does not, but many mic amps have pads or gain controls, so in some cases you have to turn the gain down, or pad it from an outside source.

We do not want to raise the price of the B1, and it is a very low profit mic for us. The only way I do make money is if we sell 100,000 of them. I think this can be done if more and more know what you know.... :)
 
GT SD tube mic

I quite like my AM40, which became the (current) GT44. Great deal, VERY tube-y, I seldom use it but when I do, it's really really nice. The only affordable SD tube mic (for now), and at the DigitalVillage prices, it's a steal.
It's actually FET/tube hybrid, but it doesn't sound solid-state at all.
the capsule is pretty cool, and coupled with the tube amp, gives a smooooth top, which work WONDERS on acoustic guitars and most other acoustic strings instruments. GT mention vocals in the applications list, but I haven't had much luck with the AM40. I usually use... well... one of my tube ADKs or Oktava VM100... but I'm biased aren't I!

JP
 
JP.

Have you had any experience with the FET only GT33? It has the same cap etc as the 44. Also, have you tried any GT LD's such as the GT55?

How do you find the noise of the 44 compares with the ADK A51SC (SC-T)? The specs suggest that the SC-T is 2 dB's quieter, but you have stated that you think the current SC-T is a little too noisy?

Thanks.

PS. I got myself 2 33's and a 55. I would have liked the tube versions, but although great value, they were just out of my price at the moment.
 
Hi again Mr Funk!

>Have you had any experience with the FET only GT33? It has >the same cap etc as the 44. Also, have you tried any GT LD's >such as the GT55?

No. I got the AM40 for 300 Euros from Germany when Alesis went bust. That was all I could afford tube-wise at the time.
I really like the tube AM40(GT44) because the tube coloration is so obvious. I found the capsule had a typical "797 small cap" tone, sort of like the ADK SC but nicer overal (sorry Larry, but I'll soon have a re-designed SC, promise!) but it's Xfo (CineMag) balanced and has a tube stage... So it's hard to compare both units.

>How do you find the noise of the 44 compares with the ADK >A51SC (SC-T)? The specs suggest that the SC-T is 2 dB's >quieter, but you have stated that you think the current SC-T is a >little too noisy?

Will try one of these days. Email me to remind me if I don't post the results here.

>PS. I got myself 2 33's and a 55. I would have liked the tube >versions, but although great value, they were just out of my >price at the moment.

You always need mics.
How's the 55 compared to your other mics?

JP
 
Mr Funk said:
So, as most of you will know (All UK peeps anyway), Digital Village are selling Groove Tube mics for very little at the mo and the GT33's are going for £239 for a matched pair and although a lot more than the ADK's, they seem good value? The only other contenders are the Studio Projects C4 set at £279, the Rode NT5's at £259 and a pair of Oktava's (single caps) for £269?
Click to expand...

Mr. Funk,

Opinions will always vary between mics. Graphs and plots are not always what they are represented to be. So while it is still a little eary for the C4's to get accurate opinions, here is a quick review from Dan Richards
C4 Review
 
JP.

The 55 is the darkest of the mics I have, but my 'collection' is limited (C1, AKG C535, GT33, old Calrad C500). It seems to be quite flat and makes a nice alternative to my lovely C1.

I actually like the 33 on vocals, it seems quite neutral, but with a little sparkle. I suggest giving your GT a spin on vocals.

Alan.
Thanks for the link. When it is time to buy some more SD's, the C4's will be high on my audition list. I got my C1 from Soundsense, who I think are great! The mic ain't too bad either!!!
 
Weird, the GT55 uses a disc resonator on the capsule's center electrode. It should sound quite open on top. Of course the C1 and 535 are pretty bright to start with, so comparisons are a bit unfair.

I might try my GT on vocals again, but I'm stoked with my other LD tube mics. Never been happy with SD/MD condensers on vox unless I'm doing "classical" style, from a distance, with a windshield on.

Unless you need a lot of mics quick, try saving up for an 84 or a Schoeps Colette series. It makes life in the studio that little bit more enjoyable... makes all the difference during playback! A Sanken 31 or 32 is cool too. Or the new Josephson SD!
Suit your needs and budget. Keep an eye (product plug alert!) on the next ADK SD. Won't be dark, won't be bright. If I have my ways, it should be pretty linear with a hint of "classic tone", but not overdone.

I should add that I have a pair of Altec 201B in my collection and they're wonderful for acoustic guitar, even though they're the noisiest condensers I have! It's not about specs; it's all about tone... but I'd always rather use a quiet mic!

But usually and unfortunately the good sounding mics are the expensive mics.
You got a bargain with the GTs.
Try something a bit more substantial, you won't regret it!
Not saying you should spend lots, but maybe move out of the "budget" category...

Since you're in the UK, you could always come down to mystudio next time you're on the "old continent". Bring your GTs, it'd be fun to A/B your 33 with my 44!

JP
 
JP Gerard said:
Of course the C1 and 535 are pretty bright to start with, so comparisons are a bit unfair.
JP
Click to expand...

Pretty bright is not a term I would use for the C1. Just like I would not use pretty dull as a term for the A51.

There is a rise on the C1 that is intentionally there. A few changes in some values and that rise is gone, but to me a pretty bright mic is a new 414...and the C1 is nowhere as bright as that mic is.

A mic that is not bright, or not dark should then have "no tone", but then again I think of tone differently. What the heck is classic tone...Can you describe that to me?
 
Like a TLII? Yep, that's pretty bright! Piercing I'd say.
I don't consider the A51 dull either, the pre-type VI capsule was a KK67 knock-off and had the typical high mid peak. The new capsule is a lot smoother on top. Change of direction... I do consider the older A51 a bit bright. Yes, I hear most mics as "bright" to start with, and the old 67 to be a lo more "true" than ie. a 414EB. To me, a mic is "bright" when my recording has a richer HF content than the source itself. And I'm tracking to tape! Most engineers who tried my modified mics say that they work great with digital systems. Smooth top...

Classic tone... I'm still after that thing.

There's just something that comes out of an old Neumann or even some old AKGs (ie. C28, C12A) that sounds right to me.
If you build a "transparent" mic, with minimum amplitude, phase and harmonis ditrortion, it doesn't sound right to me. It might be a useful tool for some applications though. I've heard some pretty linear head amps, and they're so flat, they're... boring I guess??? I love transfos. And I love non-linear head amps, tube circuits especially (with a good capsule of course!).
So to me that's where my idea of "classic tone" lies...
JP
 
Hi JP,

Thanks for the invite. If I'm ever over there I'll try to drop by! I've only been to Belgium once, on a flying visit but it was very nice.

With regards to the 55. I didn't mean that the top of the spectrum was missing, just that it was pretty neutral throughout. It didn't seem to have any large bumps or raises.

Tell me, have you had any experience with Calrec mics? I have seen a Med Diaphragm CB20c with CC51 capsule for sale. Is this worth buying and what would be a good price?

Cheers JP


Alan,

I would describe the C1 as a little bright, but not overly so and certainly not as a derogatory comment. It has the sparkle in the right place bringing things forward in the mix, which for lead voices and instruments is very cool!

I don't think you should be so deffensive or assume that people like JP are having a dig at SP products. He seems like an honest guy to me and seems genuinely into mics and recording music. You'd probably find you had a lot in common?

Cheers
 
IIRC they were transfo balanced FET+ transistor mics with a nice, flat capsule response, just the usual HF peak around 10K or so.
Make sure they're Phantom powered, not "T" powered unless you have a good "T" PSU of course. Sending 48V Phantom to a 12V assymetrical circuit is usually not a good idea...

They weren't exactly quiet, but not really bad either.

They're definitely a bargain these days, grab'em while they're cheap. Woudl make good percussion mics, Jazz drums etc, but I don't remember if the ones I tried had good headroom. Probably did...

I certainly wouldn't mind a pair, but I'd want mint condition ones, or HebdenSound "re-issues". I like the satin-nickel models, they look more expensive than they are :O>

JP
 
Mr. Funk,

I was not being defensive. I am sorry you took it that way. I am sure JP did not. He understood what I meant about "very" bright as in the newer 414TLII's. You yourself also stated the C1's are not overly bright. I just wanted to correct that there is a difference between bright, and "Very" bright. The C1's are not very bright. There is a slight rise in the mid, but that is done intentionally to bring the vocals more up front in a mix. More new school if you will, where a vintage character is more neutral or a little dark.

Basically there are two to three kinds of sounds in mics, Neutral, Dark, or Bright. Each one has merits based on application, talent, and room, as well as the producers perception of what he or she is trying to accomplish.

I also track to tape and Digital. The comment about the ADK "not" being a very dull mic was not an ADK dig or a JP dig, I think you took the typed words a bit out of context. It was meant as a juxtaposition to the term "Very" bright!

My post was not a dig and I am sure JP did not take it that way.
 
Okey-Dokey Alan, sorry I misunderstood you!

In terms of the sound characteristics identified by yourself (Dark, Neutral, Bright), how would you describe the sounds of the current SP range?

Do you think in the future, you may be looking to take on the 'higher end' mic companies, like Lawson, Brauner, Soundelux, and Neumann, or will your involvement with the Stephen Paul mics take care of this end of the spectrum? I know that the current SP line hits well above it's weight, but you know what I mean...?

The quick qestion I guess is when will you be producing a mic to take over from the T3 as top of the SP pile?

Cheers

PS. Just like to reiterate that I have liked all of the SP mics I have tried (B1, C1 & T3).
 
Mr Funk said:
Okey-Dokey Alan, sorry I misunderstood you!

In terms of the sound characteristics identified by yourself (Dark, Neutral, Bright), how would you describe the sounds of the current SP range?

Do you think in the future, you may be looking to take on the 'higher end' mic companies, like Lawson, Brauner, Soundelux, and Neumann, or will your involvement with the Stephen Paul mics take care of this end of the spectrum? I know that the current SP line hits well above it's weight, but you know what I mean...?

The quick qestion I guess is when will you be producing a mic to take over from the T3 as top of the SP pile?

Cheers

PS. Just like to reiterate that I have liked all of the SP mics I have tried (B1, C1 & T3).
Click to expand...

Mr. Funk,

Well, taking on is a broad description, but yes, we will have the SP E Series which will be above the C Series mics. These are the mics that are made in the USA. The B & C Series will allways be made in China.

The E Series will be less than the mics you have mentioned, but the quality will be above the C Series. The Stephen Paul mics will be in the range of the mics you mention, and as for quality, well again we touch on a very subjective subject.

It's kind of like a vote. Who likes Vanilla, and who likes Strawberry!!! In the end a mic is a mic. You either use it, or you don't. The Studio Projects sound is definately more new world. It has that mid rise to it and a small peak at 10K, but the fact is, so many people love this sound, just as so many people like the Vintage darker tones.

I find I use less EQ with a C1 than I do with a U87. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing? Oh yes, I use U87's, 67's, 47's and many others. I like that on certian vocal tracks the C1 brings the vocals up front in a mix. I dig vocals up front, but that is me. Often in sessions the producer does not want that, so, no problems, I go to another mic.

In the end everyone learns that nothing works the same way in one room as it does another. Fletcher and I always agree on this and it is why when I was doing sessions, I also threw a few mics up and did some listening. The best way to get the vocalist warmed up is by doing just that. Specs, graphs, or other printed hype means absolutely nothing. All that matters is if you like what you hear, or what your client hears. The name on the mic means nothing, only the end results! :)
 
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