T
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Thanx, that was really fascinating!
I'd hate to see my favorite recorders on a graph! Yikes.
That article says a lot, but in the end, just one thing specifically:
The Studer A827 2"-24 track has the flattest overall response.
I guess that's the bottom line.
Someone told me McCartney's new album, Driving Rain, was recorded on an A827.
I'd hate to see my favorite recorders on a graph! Yikes.
That article says a lot, but in the end, just one thing specifically:
The Studer A827 2"-24 track has the flattest overall response.
I guess that's the bottom line.
Someone told me McCartney's new album, Driving Rain, was recorded on an A827.
T
trebles
New member
No probs Reel my pleasure iam glad someone could have used the graph readings to further their own knowledge on the subject 
I agree with a lot of the hard nuts re analog gear though i,ll only purchase the good gear at a great price theres no way im going to pay a fortune so some studio can dump their well used tired workhorse on me.
i had an intrest in either a Tascam ms 16 or an msr 16 to go with my Tascam m3500 mixer 32x8x2 but will only pick this up when i feel the deal is benificial to myself and too good to refuse.
Geez Mc Cartneys A827 would be nice to use indeed phewwww what a cost they are repairs also i am sure are out of this world for such a machine though this would not be a drama for him just buy anew one if need be
I agree with a lot of the hard nuts re analog gear though i,ll only purchase the good gear at a great price theres no way im going to pay a fortune so some studio can dump their well used tired workhorse on me.
i had an intrest in either a Tascam ms 16 or an msr 16 to go with my Tascam m3500 mixer 32x8x2 but will only pick this up when i feel the deal is benificial to myself and too good to refuse.
Geez Mc Cartneys A827 would be nice to use indeed phewwww what a cost they are repairs also i am sure are out of this world for such a machine though this would not be a drama for him just buy anew one if need be
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Yes, agreed. These graphs were of high-end studio equipment.
But, you know, as time marches on, and with the huge transition to digital, there is a trickle-down effect of technology, analog included.
These days, more home recordists are considering a 1"-16 track, where 15-20 years ago that was almost unheard of, for straight home recording. The point being, that eventually, even home recording enthusiasts will be able to get their hands on 2"- 24 tracks, for reasonable prices.
Quote me, mark my words, or whatever,... you heard it here first: with the enormous transition to digital that the pro studios are doing, before too long, there will be enough surplus 2"/24-tracks on the second hand market, that we home recording people will be getting 2" R/R's at 'very' nice prices. This will happen, just give it time.
Already, there are a few hardcore's who already have 2" machines at home,... but not that many. However, much more common, is the person who has 1" format at home, like me, and lots of other people like me. Sure, even 1" decks are a little pricey, but prices on used analog are falling daily,... it's virtually a buyer's market on analog.
F/I, a while back, there was a 2" 24 track Tascam ATR-80-24 for sale, and a real deal at $7500, I kid you not, and this machine was in near-perfect condition, w/nil headwear. The catch? It was listed on Ebay from Deutchland, Germany, and obviously, shipping from Deutchland to the US would cost a small fortune, itself. Other than that, it was a great deal! Haha.
Fact of the matter is, that a virtually new, ultra-low hour, mint ATR-80-24, with REMOTE, is a VERY GOOD DEAL AT $7500. That's MHO, anyway. I buy lots of used gear, and have looked at low-end gear and high-end gear alike.
Trust me, This ATR-80-24 did not sell, so I'm sure it will relist soon for even LOWER opening bid. Prices are falling, as we speak.
Yesterday, I saw a "Tascam 388, needs minor repair- $195", also, a "Tascam 38 in Rolling rack WITH DBX,- ~$400", I kid you not.
Deals abound, and with a huge 'mentality' shift toward digital, analog's gone dirt-cheap, with prices on decent used gear continuing to fall, daily.
You'll get your 1", and I'll get my 2" too, eventually, when the price is right, which may be sooner than we think.
BTW, even though my 'pro-sumer' gear, such as the Tascam 38, Tascam 388, Tascam 34, Tascam MSR-24, and various Tacam Portastudios, would probably look pretty miserable if plotted on a graph, especially as compared to the Studer A827, it does not mean that a "good" sound cannot be reproduced on it.
The interesting and useful things about the freq resp graph, is that it shows the general condition of the deck, assuming everythings been aligned, etc. Head wear will be detectable on a graph, etc. Also, if you know the basic strengths and deficiencies in freq resp of your deck, than you can compensate for it a bit, with EQ on the INPUT side of the equation.
To say the least, the author of the "graph" article states, "the recording process is -anything- but FLAT".
But, you know, as time marches on, and with the huge transition to digital, there is a trickle-down effect of technology, analog included.
These days, more home recordists are considering a 1"-16 track, where 15-20 years ago that was almost unheard of, for straight home recording. The point being, that eventually, even home recording enthusiasts will be able to get their hands on 2"- 24 tracks, for reasonable prices.
Quote me, mark my words, or whatever,... you heard it here first: with the enormous transition to digital that the pro studios are doing, before too long, there will be enough surplus 2"/24-tracks on the second hand market, that we home recording people will be getting 2" R/R's at 'very' nice prices. This will happen, just give it time.
Already, there are a few hardcore's who already have 2" machines at home,... but not that many. However, much more common, is the person who has 1" format at home, like me, and lots of other people like me. Sure, even 1" decks are a little pricey, but prices on used analog are falling daily,... it's virtually a buyer's market on analog.
F/I, a while back, there was a 2" 24 track Tascam ATR-80-24 for sale, and a real deal at $7500, I kid you not, and this machine was in near-perfect condition, w/nil headwear. The catch? It was listed on Ebay from Deutchland, Germany, and obviously, shipping from Deutchland to the US would cost a small fortune, itself. Other than that, it was a great deal! Haha.
Fact of the matter is, that a virtually new, ultra-low hour, mint ATR-80-24, with REMOTE, is a VERY GOOD DEAL AT $7500. That's MHO, anyway. I buy lots of used gear, and have looked at low-end gear and high-end gear alike.
Trust me, This ATR-80-24 did not sell, so I'm sure it will relist soon for even LOWER opening bid. Prices are falling, as we speak.
Yesterday, I saw a "Tascam 388, needs minor repair- $195", also, a "Tascam 38 in Rolling rack WITH DBX,- ~$400", I kid you not.
Deals abound, and with a huge 'mentality' shift toward digital, analog's gone dirt-cheap, with prices on decent used gear continuing to fall, daily.
You'll get your 1", and I'll get my 2" too, eventually, when the price is right, which may be sooner than we think.
BTW, even though my 'pro-sumer' gear, such as the Tascam 38, Tascam 388, Tascam 34, Tascam MSR-24, and various Tacam Portastudios, would probably look pretty miserable if plotted on a graph, especially as compared to the Studer A827, it does not mean that a "good" sound cannot be reproduced on it.
The interesting and useful things about the freq resp graph, is that it shows the general condition of the deck, assuming everythings been aligned, etc. Head wear will be detectable on a graph, etc. Also, if you know the basic strengths and deficiencies in freq resp of your deck, than you can compensate for it a bit, with EQ on the INPUT side of the equation.
To say the least, the author of the "graph" article states, "the recording process is -anything- but FLAT".
T
trebles
New member
AHHHHHHH reel i like the way you think ))))))
0ver the time ive been here at bbs ive kind of now learnt a lot from just reading essp some of the posts
I too when i came here just carried on wanting it all yesterday untill one day i woke up and smelt the roses then the reems and reems of photo copies got dumped from my many gear expidititions on the net.
I then had to sit down and ask my self what gear i really needed
The only gear i own is as listed here
Tascam m3500 32x8x2 mixer
2 rnc compressors
1x behringer multigate
A few mics
a pair of mackie hr824,s
and a daw
i guess iam slowly building up stuff as i find it for what i consider is the right money it hasnt been easy either with the many decisions out there but in the end i felt if i had a little of everything i could at least cover some of the bases most of the time
eg for recorders i see it would be practical to at least own one adat one pro series dat a two track master deck like a tascam 122mkII Some sort of outboard cd burner along with your daw
and whatever you run on there to get you by
maybe a good 1'' inch 16 track deck and then a 1/2 inch two track r 2 r as well its also hard to say one dont need a stand alone hd recorder maybe a mackie hdr or an akai dr 16 but this is the level i see myself at by some stroke of luck if a nice 24 track 2'' falls into my paws for the right dollars i,ll jump at it when i can afford it
I dont see myself getting all those recorders at once but over time thats what i will get iam currently just making my last decisions on the soundcard set up for my pc and trying to find whats going to best suit my needs conectivity seems to bother me lots as i love multiple i,o options but as soon as one product has one plus it then has something missing so on you go looking again
anyway at least ive settled with what ive got and what i will now need iam thinking alot more budget wise now i posted a post re jlm audio gear they are an australian business making high end gear some of it is pricey but some is good like their 8 chans of api mic pre for 1250 usd that to me is value and where a lil more time saving money allows you to get gear like this seems to me a smart thing to do 156.25 dollars a chan if you want to think about it that way i was mentioning else where in another post it would be great to get 4 chans of neve and four chans of api in the one rack space mmmmmmm)) anyway enough said lets see what presents it self as time goes by here check out jlm reel
http://www.jlmaudio.com/products.htm
))))))0ver the time ive been here at bbs ive kind of now learnt a lot from just reading essp some of the posts
I too when i came here just carried on wanting it all yesterday untill one day i woke up and smelt the roses then the reems and reems of photo copies got dumped from my many gear expidititions on the net.
I then had to sit down and ask my self what gear i really needed
The only gear i own is as listed here
Tascam m3500 32x8x2 mixer
2 rnc compressors
1x behringer multigate
A few mics
a pair of mackie hr824,s
and a daw
i guess iam slowly building up stuff as i find it for what i consider is the right money it hasnt been easy either with the many decisions out there but in the end i felt if i had a little of everything i could at least cover some of the bases most of the time
eg for recorders i see it would be practical to at least own one adat one pro series dat a two track master deck like a tascam 122mkII Some sort of outboard cd burner along with your daw
and whatever you run on there to get you by
maybe a good 1'' inch 16 track deck and then a 1/2 inch two track r 2 r as well its also hard to say one dont need a stand alone hd recorder maybe a mackie hdr or an akai dr 16 but this is the level i see myself at by some stroke of luck if a nice 24 track 2'' falls into my paws for the right dollars i,ll jump at it when i can afford it
I dont see myself getting all those recorders at once but over time thats what i will get iam currently just making my last decisions on the soundcard set up for my pc and trying to find whats going to best suit my needs conectivity seems to bother me lots as i love multiple i,o options but as soon as one product has one plus it then has something missing so on you go looking again
anyway at least ive settled with what ive got and what i will now need iam thinking alot more budget wise now i posted a post re jlm audio gear they are an australian business making high end gear some of it is pricey but some is good like their 8 chans of api mic pre for 1250 usd that to me is value and where a lil more time saving money allows you to get gear like this seems to me a smart thing to do 156.25 dollars a chan if you want to think about it that way i was mentioning else where in another post it would be great to get 4 chans of neve and four chans of api in the one rack space mmmmmmm
)) anyway enough said lets see what presents it self as time goes by here check out jlm reel http://www.jlmaudio.com/products.htm
A Reel Person
It's Too Funky in Here!!!
Sure, I understand.
I didn't get everything I have overnight, it took years to collect what I have. Money is always the overriding, limiting factor, isn't it?
There are a lot of fantastic ways to record hifi audio onto a computer, and with the digital-crazy madness that pervades society, people love it. Studios love it. Right now, there's a GIGANTIC movement to digital recording, practically leaving analog in the dust!
Most studios have already been excessing their analog gear, for a long time now. 2" reel analog will become reasonably affordable, eventually, except,...
...unless there's a resurgence of analog, which may not be likely, but just today, in MIX magazine, there was a high-end mixer console manufacturer, advertising "great refurbished analog consoles- the real deal", and that, to me, represents a crack in the armor of the digital affront,...
That kind of attitude, if it were to spread through the rest of the recording equipment manufacturers, could possibly bring on a new age of 'classic vintage analog' recorders, newly manufactured, retro-designed analog recorders.
-Tascam may have fired all the people who worked in the Reel-to Reel generation, or they may have retired or dropped dead of old age, but I'm sure Tascam still has the engineering drawings for all those old machines, locked in a drawer, somewhere.
Tascam, I'm sure, still has a lot of really good, bright engineers, and it would not be hard to shift gears a little, retool, and offer a co-product line, "neo-classic analog recorders", maybe, with a few 21st century features thrown in.
-Anyway, that's what I'd like to see, as an analog fan and user.
Well, short of getting a new analog line of recorders, and with current trends, I think we'll all eventually have our shot at a used 2" R/R, that's affordable, within a few more years.
I didn't get everything I have overnight, it took years to collect what I have. Money is always the overriding, limiting factor, isn't it?
There are a lot of fantastic ways to record hifi audio onto a computer, and with the digital-crazy madness that pervades society, people love it. Studios love it. Right now, there's a GIGANTIC movement to digital recording, practically leaving analog in the dust!
Most studios have already been excessing their analog gear, for a long time now. 2" reel analog will become reasonably affordable, eventually, except,...
...unless there's a resurgence of analog, which may not be likely, but just today, in MIX magazine, there was a high-end mixer console manufacturer, advertising "great refurbished analog consoles- the real deal", and that, to me, represents a crack in the armor of the digital affront,...
That kind of attitude, if it were to spread through the rest of the recording equipment manufacturers, could possibly bring on a new age of 'classic vintage analog' recorders, newly manufactured, retro-designed analog recorders.
-Tascam may have fired all the people who worked in the Reel-to Reel generation, or they may have retired or dropped dead of old age, but I'm sure Tascam still has the engineering drawings for all those old machines, locked in a drawer, somewhere.
Tascam, I'm sure, still has a lot of really good, bright engineers, and it would not be hard to shift gears a little, retool, and offer a co-product line, "neo-classic analog recorders", maybe, with a few 21st century features thrown in.
-Anyway, that's what I'd like to see, as an analog fan and user.
Well, short of getting a new analog line of recorders, and with current trends, I think we'll all eventually have our shot at a used 2" R/R, that's affordable, within a few more years.
longsoughtfor
Searching for the sound
Well, this has been my philosophy for a while... sound (pleasing sound anyway) is by nature an analog medium. Vocal, guitars, drums, violins, pianos, saxaphones microphones even, are all analog devices and recording them that way makes sense to me.
Music today is distibuted almost exclusivly in digital format. We do have to accept that digital translation is here to stay (and does have tremendous benefits)and that the music we record must be translated to digital at some point in the process.
The question is where in the recording chain should it be converted? Given that A/D and D/A converters are the weak (lossiest)(sp?) link in the chain, does it make sense for a home-rec'er to buy a low end digital board or protools interface with a whole bunch of marginal A/D's and expect great sound?
In another forum recently, Sjoko2 mentioned that digital recording is just now becoming as good as analog IF one uses high end A/D's and a separate high quality digital clock.
I think putting a decent A/D, D/A at the end of chain even after a analog matering deck is a great approach to recording especially for the home studio. I recently got an MS-16 which at 15 ips sounds really sweet. I can put SMPTE data on one channel and sync to a midi sequencer if I need to. I have a great British analog board that has midi controlled muting which I can drive with the same sequencer! I'm all for digital control of the music
Now I have (see related thread in this forum) a decent 1/4" stereo reel to reel to master to. I can take the output of that into a good A/D and burn a CD. The sound is great. Yup the media cost is a little higher and there is some maitenence to do... not a big deal.
So, yeah, I agree with both of you guys... Analog is a great way to go and I would love to see a resurgence in mainstream analog use though I am doubtfull it will happen. But I think for someone just starting out in recording, there is a ton of stuff to learn from old analog recording tecniques that is lost completely with a PC setup. Standing on the shoulders of giants is what it's all about! Learn how & why stuff sounds the way it does and then make informed decisions on how to proceed.
I'll get off the soap box now
Kevin.
Music today is distibuted almost exclusivly in digital format. We do have to accept that digital translation is here to stay (and does have tremendous benefits)and that the music we record must be translated to digital at some point in the process.
The question is where in the recording chain should it be converted? Given that A/D and D/A converters are the weak (lossiest)(sp?) link in the chain, does it make sense for a home-rec'er to buy a low end digital board or protools interface with a whole bunch of marginal A/D's and expect great sound?
In another forum recently, Sjoko2 mentioned that digital recording is just now becoming as good as analog IF one uses high end A/D's and a separate high quality digital clock.
I think putting a decent A/D, D/A at the end of chain even after a analog matering deck is a great approach to recording especially for the home studio. I recently got an MS-16 which at 15 ips sounds really sweet. I can put SMPTE data on one channel and sync to a midi sequencer if I need to. I have a great British analog board that has midi controlled muting which I can drive with the same sequencer! I'm all for digital control of the music
Now I have (see related thread in this forum) a decent 1/4" stereo reel to reel to master to. I can take the output of that into a good A/D and burn a CD. The sound is great. Yup the media cost is a little higher and there is some maitenence to do... not a big deal.So, yeah, I agree with both of you guys... Analog is a great way to go and I would love to see a resurgence in mainstream analog use though I am doubtfull it will happen. But I think for someone just starting out in recording, there is a ton of stuff to learn from old analog recording tecniques that is lost completely with a PC setup. Standing on the shoulders of giants is what it's all about! Learn how & why stuff sounds the way it does and then make informed decisions on how to proceed.
I'll get off the soap box now
Kevin.