Where to start?? Okay,... Using Macbook Pro, Studio One Artist, Soundcraft signature mtk 12, and alesis dm10. .. I want to use the drum pads from the dm10, into the dm10 to record the midi information into daw while monitoring the sounds of the dm10 as I am overdubbing from existing tracks. .... THEN,... I want to break out the midi track into seperate tracks (kick snare, toms, etc.) and have those seperated midi tracks trigger (use) the sounds in the dm10 .. Started trying to learn/do this last night and the whole screen got very messy and confusing. ... Studio one kept wanting to use an internal sound module called "presence". Tracks were no longer directly associated with faders, trying to monitor the dm10 on playback through the daw was confusing.. etc, etc,..... Any possible help on doing what I want in an organized, step by step kind of way?? One of tue most confusing things was the studio one manual that basically said I have to set the midi on the dm10 to one setting when recording, then set the dm10 midi differently on playback.. That would be a huge pain in the neck.. Thanks in advance...
Got into m.i.d.i. and fell down the rabbit hole.
- Thread starter Flyndad
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ashcat_lt
Well-known member
I really can't help you with StudioOne. All of the symptoms you describe just sound asinine to me, like they've deliberately made it more complicated than it needs to be. Lots of DAWs do. In Reaper it's easy.
IDK why you'd have to switch settings on the DM10 back and forth. You'll want to turn off MIDI thru so you don't create a feedback loop. It won't sound much like audio feedback probably, it'll just make dm10 spaz out.
Now when you start talking about separate tracks I get slightly worried. You do understand that while you can split the MIDI notes out to separate tracks, the actual audio is still going to be a mix of them all? That unit has 4 outputs, so if you want separate audio tracks (to compress, EQ, or just mix differently later), you can only go so far without a little messing around. It is very common, though, to set it up as kick, snare, and stereo "overhead" for the rest of the kit. You can set that up any way you want/need, like maybe kick, snare, mono tom mix, mono cymbals, or just run the timbale out its own track so you can put that cool dubby delay on it.
Anyway, good luck!
IDK why you'd have to switch settings on the DM10 back and forth. You'll want to turn off MIDI thru so you don't create a feedback loop. It won't sound much like audio feedback probably, it'll just make dm10 spaz out.
Now when you start talking about separate tracks I get slightly worried. You do understand that while you can split the MIDI notes out to separate tracks, the actual audio is still going to be a mix of them all? That unit has 4 outputs, so if you want separate audio tracks (to compress, EQ, or just mix differently later), you can only go so far without a little messing around. It is very common, though, to set it up as kick, snare, and stereo "overhead" for the rest of the kit. You can set that up any way you want/need, like maybe kick, snare, mono tom mix, mono cymbals, or just run the timbale out its own track so you can put that cool dubby delay on it.
Anyway, good luck!
SeaGtGruff
Member
Disclaimer: I'm no Studio One expert, and I'm not certain of everything you want to do or how experienced you are, so you might want to take the following with a grain of salt.
I like Studio One well enough; I occasionally use the free version, Studio One Prime, although it isn't really my DAW of choice. However, it does seem like certain things are more complicated than they need to be-- at least, more complicated than in other DAWs. But once you get past those bumps, it's a pretty easy DAW to use.
First of all, if you want to use external MIDI devices then you should configure them in Studio One or they'll be more difficult to use. There are at least 3 ways to get to the MIDI setup window:
(1) Click on the "Configure External Devices" link on the startup screen.
(2) Click on the "Studio One" menu, click on "Options," and (if it's not already selected) click on the "External Devices" tab (its icon looks like a 5-pin MIDI port).
(3) Press the CTRL-, keys), and (if it's not already selected) click on the "External Devices" tab.
From there you want to click on the "Add" button to set up a new device, or click on an existing device and click on the "Edit" button.
There are a lot of devices listed by manufacturer, but I find that it's better to set up your devices yourself-- at least, if you're setting up a MIDI Input or MIDI Output device. You can set up 3 types of devices, each being for a particular purpose:
(1) New Keyboard - This is for a MIDI Input device, such as a keyboard controller, drum pad controller, or any other type of device that will be sending MIDI messages to Studio One to be recorded or to play a virtual instrument.
(2) New Instrument - This is for a MIDI Output device, such as a digital keyboard, synth, electronic drum kit, or any other type of sound module that will be receiving MIDI messages from Studio One.
(3) New Control Surface - I don't actually use this option myself, but I believe it's for a MIDI device that you want to use for controlling Studio One itself, including functions that might be recorded in automation tracks.
Note that in some cases you can-- and, in my experience, should-- set up the same device more than once, depending on how you want to use it in Studio One. For instance, if you have a digital keyboard then you might want to use it for both MIDI Input and MIDI Output, in which case you'll want to set it up as a "New Keyboard" for when you want to use it as a keyboard controller, and as a "New Instrument" for when you want to use it as an external sound module.
In addition, you might want to set it up multiple times, once for each channel, rather than setting it up once for all channels. For instance, if you have a 16-channel multitimbral keyboard named XYZ-123, you might want to set it up as 16 MIDI Input ("New Keyboard") devices, such as "XYZ-Ch01-In" through "XYZ-Ch16-In," and as 16 MIDI Output ("New Instrument") devices, such as "XYZ-Ch01-Out" through "XYZ-Ch16-Out." For each of these you would want to deselect all channels in the setup except the particular channel you want to receive from or send to. You might also want to set it up for sending or receiving all channels at once, such as "XYZ-All-In" and "XYX-All-Out." That's a lot of extra initial setup work, but in my experience it will make it easier later on when you want to add a track in Studio One and assign the device for MIDI Input or MIDI Output on a specific channel.
Of course, once you've set up configurations for your devices, you don't need to keep doing it all over again each session, so it might be a hassle to do but at least it's a one-time thing.
By comparison, in other DAWs you might be able to just select the device for either MIDI Input or MIDI Output on a given track without having to configure the device first, and then choose whether you want to send or receive on all channels or just a specific channel.
I like Studio One well enough; I occasionally use the free version, Studio One Prime, although it isn't really my DAW of choice. However, it does seem like certain things are more complicated than they need to be-- at least, more complicated than in other DAWs. But once you get past those bumps, it's a pretty easy DAW to use.
First of all, if you want to use external MIDI devices then you should configure them in Studio One or they'll be more difficult to use. There are at least 3 ways to get to the MIDI setup window:
(1) Click on the "Configure External Devices" link on the startup screen.
(2) Click on the "Studio One" menu, click on "Options," and (if it's not already selected) click on the "External Devices" tab (its icon looks like a 5-pin MIDI port).
(3) Press the CTRL-, keys), and (if it's not already selected) click on the "External Devices" tab.
From there you want to click on the "Add" button to set up a new device, or click on an existing device and click on the "Edit" button.
There are a lot of devices listed by manufacturer, but I find that it's better to set up your devices yourself-- at least, if you're setting up a MIDI Input or MIDI Output device. You can set up 3 types of devices, each being for a particular purpose:
(1) New Keyboard - This is for a MIDI Input device, such as a keyboard controller, drum pad controller, or any other type of device that will be sending MIDI messages to Studio One to be recorded or to play a virtual instrument.
(2) New Instrument - This is for a MIDI Output device, such as a digital keyboard, synth, electronic drum kit, or any other type of sound module that will be receiving MIDI messages from Studio One.
(3) New Control Surface - I don't actually use this option myself, but I believe it's for a MIDI device that you want to use for controlling Studio One itself, including functions that might be recorded in automation tracks.
Note that in some cases you can-- and, in my experience, should-- set up the same device more than once, depending on how you want to use it in Studio One. For instance, if you have a digital keyboard then you might want to use it for both MIDI Input and MIDI Output, in which case you'll want to set it up as a "New Keyboard" for when you want to use it as a keyboard controller, and as a "New Instrument" for when you want to use it as an external sound module.
In addition, you might want to set it up multiple times, once for each channel, rather than setting it up once for all channels. For instance, if you have a 16-channel multitimbral keyboard named XYZ-123, you might want to set it up as 16 MIDI Input ("New Keyboard") devices, such as "XYZ-Ch01-In" through "XYZ-Ch16-In," and as 16 MIDI Output ("New Instrument") devices, such as "XYZ-Ch01-Out" through "XYZ-Ch16-Out." For each of these you would want to deselect all channels in the setup except the particular channel you want to receive from or send to. You might also want to set it up for sending or receiving all channels at once, such as "XYZ-All-In" and "XYX-All-Out." That's a lot of extra initial setup work, but in my experience it will make it easier later on when you want to add a track in Studio One and assign the device for MIDI Input or MIDI Output on a specific channel.
Of course, once you've set up configurations for your devices, you don't need to keep doing it all over again each session, so it might be a hassle to do but at least it's a one-time thing.
By comparison, in other DAWs you might be able to just select the device for either MIDI Input or MIDI Output on a given track without having to configure the device first, and then choose whether you want to send or receive on all channels or just a specific channel.
WOW!! Hey, HUGE Thanks guys,. Excellent responses and quite quickly too !! I have a feeling I will be here often over the next several months,..
Super quick background: I am,. errr,. WAS, a professional engineer/producer with a 48trk 5000sf. studio,.. a long time ago. I think my the last session I ran was 1994 or 95'. I missed it terribly and found you can now have a studio that does MORE for hundreds of thousands LESS than it used to cost. So,.. home studio here I come!! hehehe,.. Then I realized that,.. well,.. just a little bit has changed since those days and quickly realized I would have to start learning from scratch. I believe the reality of the matter is that my former role as professional engineer actually makes it MORE difficult to learn all the new gear/signal flow, ergonomics, and session management. I almost wish I knew nothing about recording at all..
That being said I really appreciate the time taken to help address the myriad of issues and problems I brought up in the initial post.
I was able to get midi to the daw, but presonus MADE me use THEIR drum sounds. I discovered that the "Artist" version does not allow outside "3rd party" modules but, of course, can be purchased as an add-on for $80.. >>rolls eyes<< .
ashcat_It - You are Spot ON! I completely forgot that the DM10 doesn't have the outputs I require. It has now been relegated to a trigger only midi to daw only unit. I will HAVE to purchase the vst add-on for studio one and a vst drum package. Being "old school" I don't think I could function without having independent control over every instrument. I am certainly open to ANY suggestions. I have heard good things about toontracks and Slate Drums. I do believe I could trigger the vst package with the dm10 set, record the midi performance from the dm10 triggers, breakout the midi track to individual parts and then trigger the Slate sounds to different tracks. ... One of the problems when I tried this in studio one is that it created a "rendered" version of the midi where the names of the tracks and the name of the internal drum machine and the name of the dm10 drum machine were getting very muddled on the screen and not matching up.. This I believe I can learn with time and a better understanding of just how to work inside a daw environment. This would also solve the different settings issue with the dm10 from recording to playback.. Bottom line, without your response I would probably have spent another 6 or 7 nights beating my head against the console before the light bulb went off,.. hehe thanks,.. "OOhhhh,.. I need individual instrument outs to hear individual sounds".. der,.. Thanks again..
SeaGtGruff - Thank you VERY much for the response,. without your help I don't think it would have occurred to me to set up TWO of the "SAME" external devices. You saved me countless hours of back and forth. As I find myself in the market for a VERY good vst drum program (mostly rock, some country) might you have any suggestions?? Thanks again,..
Super quick background: I am,. errr,. WAS, a professional engineer/producer with a 48trk 5000sf. studio,.. a long time ago. I think my the last session I ran was 1994 or 95'. I missed it terribly and found you can now have a studio that does MORE for hundreds of thousands LESS than it used to cost. So,.. home studio here I come!! hehehe,.. Then I realized that,.. well,.. just a little bit has changed since those days and quickly realized I would have to start learning from scratch. I believe the reality of the matter is that my former role as professional engineer actually makes it MORE difficult to learn all the new gear/signal flow, ergonomics, and session management. I almost wish I knew nothing about recording at all..
That being said I really appreciate the time taken to help address the myriad of issues and problems I brought up in the initial post.
I was able to get midi to the daw, but presonus MADE me use THEIR drum sounds. I discovered that the "Artist" version does not allow outside "3rd party" modules but, of course, can be purchased as an add-on for $80.. >>rolls eyes<< .
ashcat_It - You are Spot ON! I completely forgot that the DM10 doesn't have the outputs I require. It has now been relegated to a trigger only midi to daw only unit. I will HAVE to purchase the vst add-on for studio one and a vst drum package. Being "old school" I don't think I could function without having independent control over every instrument. I am certainly open to ANY suggestions. I have heard good things about toontracks and Slate Drums. I do believe I could trigger the vst package with the dm10 set, record the midi performance from the dm10 triggers, breakout the midi track to individual parts and then trigger the Slate sounds to different tracks. ... One of the problems when I tried this in studio one is that it created a "rendered" version of the midi where the names of the tracks and the name of the internal drum machine and the name of the dm10 drum machine were getting very muddled on the screen and not matching up.. This I believe I can learn with time and a better understanding of just how to work inside a daw environment. This would also solve the different settings issue with the dm10 from recording to playback.. Bottom line, without your response I would probably have spent another 6 or 7 nights beating my head against the console before the light bulb went off,.. hehe thanks,.. "OOhhhh,.. I need individual instrument outs to hear individual sounds".. der,.. Thanks again..
SeaGtGruff - Thank you VERY much for the response,. without your help I don't think it would have occurred to me to set up TWO of the "SAME" external devices. You saved me countless hours of back and forth. As I find myself in the market for a VERY good vst drum program (mostly rock, some country) might you have any suggestions?? Thanks again,..
SeaGtGruff
Member
I knew that Studio One Prime doesn't allow third-party plug-ins, but I thought that Artist did. However, you're right; I see on the PreSonus web site that support for third-party plug-ins is an "available add-on" in Artist. 
To be honest, I'm not a recorder/producer, and not even much of a performer-- more of a dabbling hobbyist-- and most of my virtual instruments are synths. So I can't really recommend any particular drums/percussion software, since I don't have experience with any of them. But after taking a quick look at some of the available ones, I'd say that Toontrack Superior Drummer or its little brother EZdrummer, as well as Steven Slate Drums, Native Instruments Battery, and East West Quantum Leap all look pretty good to me. FXpansion Tremor and FXpansion BFD3 also look interesting. If I were buying for myself, I'd personally lean toward something with a lot of analog rock, pop, jazz, and orchestral kits to choose from, as well as some "world instruments" thrown in for added flavor.
To be honest, I'm not a recorder/producer, and not even much of a performer-- more of a dabbling hobbyist-- and most of my virtual instruments are synths. So I can't really recommend any particular drums/percussion software, since I don't have experience with any of them. But after taking a quick look at some of the available ones, I'd say that Toontrack Superior Drummer or its little brother EZdrummer, as well as Steven Slate Drums, Native Instruments Battery, and East West Quantum Leap all look pretty good to me. FXpansion Tremor and FXpansion BFD3 also look interesting. If I were buying for myself, I'd personally lean toward something with a lot of analog rock, pop, jazz, and orchestral kits to choose from, as well as some "world instruments" thrown in for added flavor.
Knowledge-wise about MIDI I am a bacterium compared to the guys above but would just like to suggest you download the demo of Cubase. You can get the 'Lite' version free but need to buy a dongle for the biggy still, I am pretty sure the 'MIDI mechanics' are the same in both?
I understand Steinberg's DAW started out as just a sequencer and Audio recording came later? Cubase is tough to learn (I gave up!) but arguably THE dog's whatsits for MIDI?
Dave.
I understand Steinberg's DAW started out as just a sequencer and Audio recording came later? Cubase is tough to learn (I gave up!) but arguably THE dog's whatsits for MIDI?
Dave.
DM60
Well-known member
I would even venture to say, for $60 or zero if you don't mind the nag screen, Reaper. Maybe StudioOne is a good DAW, don't know, but plugins VSTs and VSTis are really primary functions of DAW. I am just leery of a DAW that nickles and dimes you on basic functionality. VSTs are basic.
SeaGtGruff
Member
The "lite" version of Cubase isn't free, at least not if you're talking about Cubase Elements; it's $99 new, or less to update from an earlier version. It doesn't require a dongle (thankfully), just the eLicenser. Of course, it's available as a 30-day free trial, which might be what you meant?
There are also two other "lite" versions-- AI and LE. All three have a common help manual, and are often referred to together ("Cubase Elements/AI/LE") as though they're interchangeable, but if I'm not mistaken AI and LE are more stripped-down than Elements (although I don't know what the differences are). They're "free-ish," and aren't for sale, but I don't think they can be downloaded without a license, and the only way to get a license is to buy some audio or MIDI hardware (synth, controller, interface, etc.) that includes Cubase AI or LE as bundled downloadable software-- so they aren't really free, since you can't get them without spending money.
Regardless, in the long run Cubase Elements would probably be a better buy than getting the "additional add-on" for Studio One Artist, since Cubase lets you use SysEx but Studio One doesn't, and Cubase supports third-party plug-ins without the need for an "add-on."
Of course, REAPER would be cheaper still to purchase.
There are also two other "lite" versions-- AI and LE. All three have a common help manual, and are often referred to together ("Cubase Elements/AI/LE") as though they're interchangeable, but if I'm not mistaken AI and LE are more stripped-down than Elements (although I don't know what the differences are). They're "free-ish," and aren't for sale, but I don't think they can be downloaded without a license, and the only way to get a license is to buy some audio or MIDI hardware (synth, controller, interface, etc.) that includes Cubase AI or LE as bundled downloadable software-- so they aren't really free, since you can't get them without spending money.
Regardless, in the long run Cubase Elements would probably be a better buy than getting the "additional add-on" for Studio One Artist, since Cubase lets you use SysEx but Studio One doesn't, and Cubase supports third-party plug-ins without the need for an "add-on."
Of course, REAPER would be cheaper still to purchase.
"The "lite" version of Cubase isn't free, at least not if you're talking about Cubase Elements; it's $99 new, or less to update from an earlier version. It doesn't require a dongle (thankfully), just the eLicenser. Of course, it's available as a 30-day free trial, which might be what you meant?"
Yes SGG' that is what I meant. I have Elements 6, got it for my son and he found it gave him the lowest latency triggering a VSTi with a dumb keyboard and a 2496 card. Lower than Samplitude and lower than Sonar. We did not have Reaper to try at the time.
Dave.
Yes SGG' that is what I meant. I have Elements 6, got it for my son and he found it gave him the lowest latency triggering a VSTi with a dumb keyboard and a 2496 card. Lower than Samplitude and lower than Sonar. We did not have Reaper to try at the time.
Dave.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
Hoestly, while I've always preferred Alesis drums to Roland, and the DM10 is pretty darn good, I think you'll get much better results with one of the massively multi sampled drum VSTis. I use SuperiorDrummer and some EZD expansions and it gets me where I need to go - to the point that sometime people ask me how I miked the drums.
But if you really want every single drum on its own track, you can get that out of the DM10. Record the MIDI to your DAW, split it out like you were saying, and then once you've edited that to your liking, just record each drum to an audio track by muting the MIDI from the ones you don't want and recording to audio tracks. In this case you could do up to four at a time if you set it up correctly inside the DM10. It's a bit of a hassle, but it can be done.
Then again, when I record acoustic drums, it's usually just a kick mic and stereo pair, and even if you're close miking some of the drums, you don't usually have individual cymbal mics, so you might be able to get away with fewer separate tracks than you think.
SeaGtGruff
Member
Ah, okay!
I have Elements 8 and 9 myself, but haven't switched over to using Cubase exclusively yet.