Good Quality- More Isolation

  • Thread starter Thread starter drstawl
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drstawl

drstawl

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I'm looking for suggestions on my next mic(s) purchase. The Rodent Honeymoon isn't really over, I've just run up against some of the limitations of this mic. I know that I can get more isolation with other mics; my AKG D770 did a fantastic job of micing a guitar amp while rejecting horrible room noise, but the sound of that mic compared to the Rodents is like recording a funeral from inside the coffin.... :)
If I try to get that close to a loud source with the Rodents, it just clips. I still love the Rodent sound; I just want to get to the next level in versatility by adding a mixer and several more mics to my current remote rig. Like a mic that could be placed inside a grand piano to boost the level of that instrument relative to the rest of the mix.
 
Have you considered a ribbon mic? Beyerdynamic makes some really good ribbon mics.
 
Physically inside a grand piano? Like a Crown PZM-30D or other boundary mic?

Otherwise, most references recommend a pair of small diaphragm condensers (a la SM81, MC012, CM700) in X-Y, ORTF, or spaced arrangement. I'm partial to ORTF, but I'm lazy and built this little gizmo I found on the web to keep the angle and spacing of the capsules straight (17 cm, 110 degrees). You get nice stereo, no mic phase problems, and it sets up in a minute.

I have been intrigued by the PZMs. The folks that use them for grand piano swear by them (search rec.audio.pro discussion archives at www.dejanews.com), and they just tape them under the lid. You can even CLOSE the lid to improve separation and because of the pressure-zone effect, you still get a nice sound. Crown has a book about these; it may be on line.

If you are going to go the ribbon route, make sure your mic pre is very quiet, because ribbons are low output dynamic-class mics that need a lot of amplification. Some of the current high end preamps were designed with ribbons in mind--the Great River for one (www.greatriverelectronics.com).

Ribbons traditionally have a figure-8 pattern, which means they're not going to be rejecting much.

I am convinced the mic/mic pre thing is a disease and I for one have got it--you can never have too many...

Happy hunting, Dr. Stawl--let us know what you decide.

Mark W
 
The ribbon mics have me interested but the dbx pre ain't ribbon friendly, starting up with phantom power wherever it was last set instead of off. The bass player on my last gig just had his own low-end deal to capture the performance. He just stuck a Shure SM-57 inside the piano thru a Mackie 12xx mixer to a Pioneer Dual cassette deck.
 
I've done same thing (including just laying an SM58 on the soundboard of an upright. I don't recommend that--with certain notes, the thing rings. For the rest, I got a great, full sound).

That's a bummer about the dbx--I've heard they have a very good line. I guess you could always unplug your mic each time before you power up.
 
If you remember to turn off the phantom power on the 386 before you turn the unit off it's not a problem, but I'd want a little more assurance than that if I had a pair of $1200 ribbon mics on the line.
 
drstawl:

What other mics do you already own?
How much do you want to spend on this next mic(s)?
What will the next mic(s) need to do for you?
 
Also, I was thinking about your quest for better isolation... Unless you'll be using PZMs under piano lids or on the floor with a carpet strip or folded blanket on top of the condenser element, covering the rear for rejection, and with the element's nose left exposed, PZMs are not designed for isolation.
 
Somehow I get the idea from sticking my toe into these new waters of remote recording with more than two mics that I'm stepping into a VERY deep hole here. Re: current thread in the Cave about the black hole of recording.
So I haven't even bought the mixer yet.
 
Following is a response from Beyerdynamic regarding ribbon mics and their inadvertent exposure to phantom power. The question: Phantom power damages ribbon mics, fact or myth?

James,

The Ribbon-Microphone myth is just that... a myth.

In Dynamic and Ribbon Microphones, pin 1 is wired to chassis ground. In
other words, the phantom power is dead-ended at the base of the microphone,
and will not reach the ribbon (or the dynamic's diaphragm).

Please be careful, though. If the microphone has been re-wired, post
factory, you may run into a problem: if someone decided to un-do the
grounding of pin 1 you can damage the diaphragm or ribbon.

Alexis Kurtz
_____________________
Alexis D. Kurtz
Applications Engineer
beyerdynamic))))North America
alexis@beyerdynamic.com www.beyerdynamic.com
 
I don't own any ribbon mics, but I'd like to, having heard great things about their sound.

But I didn't start this "Myth" about the phantom power hazard.

Here's a quote from the Coles 4038 Ribbon Mic users manual:

NEVER PLUG THE 4038 INTO PHANTOM or "T" POWERED MIC INPUTS.
"T" Power will instantly destroy a ribbon and also can hurt a dynamic mic. Phantom power can do the same if you have a bad mic cable. It is best to play it safe by turning off the mic powering and wait a minute. After this it is safe to plug in your ribbon mic. This will allow both of the mic preamps' input capacitors to discharge fully after you turn powering off.
 
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