good mic suggestions?

[EVT]

HI all,
I got the safesound audio p1....tried it out with electric guitar and bass, it sounds amazing.... I'm so glad I got it!!!!

I still haven't tried vocals, or mic'd acoustic guitar. What mic's would be good for vocals and mic'd acoustic guitar? mostly female vocal. under 500...i'm going through the safesound...into a fostex 16ex...
thanx
evt

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo EV! This question has been asked, and answered, so many times I have nightmares about it. Short form- The needs of recording voice and acoustic are rather different, and most people simply don't use the same mic for those two jobs. You can mic an acoustic with one or two small diaphragm condensers, one or two large diaphragms, or one of each. Dynamics, which are often OK for vox, are rarely chosen for acoustic guitar. Generally, acoustics require high end detail, sensitivity to fast transients, and some bass rolloff is good to decrease boom. That prescription will make most singers sound like a cat in heat, unless they are very good. Cheap guitars often profit from colored mics, which provide the selective distortion we call "warmth", which basically provides less detail, airbrushing the rough edges of an inexpensive guitar. The same can be true of vocalists. You don't need to airbrush Pavarotti, Charlotte Church, or Freddy Mercury. And I don't think I'd use a reference mic to record No Doubt.
So- You have to ask yourself just what kind of guitar and voice you intend to record. Ovation, or Huss and Dalton? Epiphone or Breedlove? Washburn or Froggy Bottom? Ibanez or Martin? Same thing with the singer. Dolly Parton or Juliana Hatfield? Bob Dylan or Garth Brooks? Ray Charles or Meatloaf?
In every price range there are compromises between accurate or transparent mics and colored or warm mics. OK- $500 and under, some of my favorites- Rode NTK, a little bright, a little color. Good on blues/rock, very good on cheap guitars. B.L.U.E. Baby Bottle- a little hype going on in the midrange, very little color. Good on expensive guitars and really good singers. Better choice for a good guitar and a good singer- a pair of Studio Projects C-4's on the guitar and CAD M-179 or Studio Projects B-1 on vocals.
On a cheap guitar and an average vocalist, AKG C2000B rocks. On a mediocre singer, just give 'em a good dynamic, say Sennheiser MD421 or a Shure SM58. These mics are less sensitive, and will pick up less breath noise. They are forgiving.
Got a piercing soprano? Try Oktava MK319. The Oktava MC012's are small diaphragm mics that are great on cheap to midrange guitars. For guitars or vox, mics are like shoes. Cheap ones that fit are better than expensive ones that don't. Good cheap compromise? I like Audiotechnica AT4033. My personal favorite compromise mic is AKG C414B-ULS, just out of the stated price range. You have to match the mic or mics to the source, which is why you get so many answers when you ask that question. Not all guitars or all singers were created equal.-Richie

 

[Big Kenny]

NAILED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice job Richie, make that a sticky

 

[Mark7]

Colour me (what a quaint phrase) shocked that Richie's even heard of Juliana Hatfield

 

[JohnnyMan]

Thanks Richard,

I found your post very helpful. I am in the hobby recordist category and all I can currently afford are the "less expensive" type mics. Your post added suggestions to my quest for more mics. I find myself becoming a mic junky. The more I can get the better.

I have heard a lot of positive things about Studio Project mics.

My current humble collection boasts: 2 Octava MK-012s, 2 Rode NT1s, Shure SM57, AKG 535EB, Radio Shack PZM, and a Roland something that came with my VS880.

I'm always looking for good vocal mics and acoustic guitar mics. I record a terrible singer (me) and hopefully there is a mic that will make him sound better. I had hoped that the NT1s would have done that but I am not totally convinced of that yet.

John

 

[EVT]

hmmmm....

Richard,
thanx for the response. Ok, the style is always a difficult thing to pinpoint, but I would say it falls in the pop category. I like recording a lot with harmonies/vocals. I have a upper mid-range, and I do the main vocals. Then there are the other band members, another female.. with a lower midrange, and there is a male in the mid to low/bass end of the spectrum.
I record drum machines, usually electric guitar/but acoustic too- that i want to mic, bass, keyboard. I also do electronic styles of music solo/ I want vocals to sound warm/smooth.
I just got the safesound p1, and loved the sound i got out of it for bass, guitar, and keyboard. I've been using sennheiser e 835s mics. They sound pretty good, but I want something better.
I have an akg c3000- I have mic'd the body of the acoustic with, and then one of the sennheisers on the neck.
thanx again...
evt

 

[cgm]

to EVT

You mentioned you have sung through a Sennheiser e835 and weren't overly impressed. I am very picky about my mic, more of the sound it reproduces. I do lead vocals in a soul band and fell in love with my Senn e855.

The brand and model of the mic was somewhat unimportant, but to the point of this response... the learning experience. When selecting MY mic, I tested several different makes and models. I did this in store with a trusted salesperson I know pretty well. Interesting thing was that some mic's made a huge difference with HIS voice, others did not. I tried Shure mic's and all the models under Sennheisser (835, 845, 855). When he swithced to the 855, there was no noticable difference from the SM58. When I changed to the 855, there was a huge difference.

Point is, the same mic will work differently with each user. Rather than finding out who likes what mic, the only REAL test is to do it yourself. Using your voice in a music store, simply sing through one mic after another. The real "gem" will surface on it's own. It may not be what everyone else is using, but that is a moot point. I fully accept the fact that other brands/models are great, but my e855 just cut way through the others. It has amazing vocal clarity and awesome presence. For me, the 835 and 845 didn't come close. But then again...that was my voice.

Good luck

 

[chessparov]

One (or two) multi-pattern condensers, in a good sounding room, would be the most flexible IMHO. Best set-up for group harmony vocals BTW.

Look at some pictures of harmony based groups being recorded, like the Beach Boys or Mamas and Papas, and you'll see what I mean.
They also used RCA 77 ribbons sometimes, but that'll be outside your budget.
(not necessarily better just "softer"/different sounding)

Chris

P.S. FWIW i"ve heard about ten different singers (live) through the Studio
Projects T3 and it sounded excellent on all of them-at least through
my headphones. Haven't heard the new Rode's or newer AT 40 series.

 

[EVT]

one at a time harmonies

Hey thanks for the info.
I usually record individual tracks.. not all at once with the harmonies, because i do them myself many times.
I went sam ash and they had the rode nt3 in the glass case, I was going to buy it, but they had none left in stock... I tried to see if they would sell it to me way cheaper the one in the case, but they only would take off tax or something, meanwhile... if you ever try to sell anything to one of those places.... they offer you a peanut and then sell it a for a million times more...
So, I didn't get it... they don't carry studio projects mic's in guitar center or sam ash... I wanted to just get it... I have narrowed things down to the nt3, or the studio projects b1. It's mostly going to be for vocals... I found a b1 for 79.99 at music center inc.
thanx
evt

 

[Big Kenny]

Before you buy a mic, reread Richie's post. You can get some great results from the CAD m179, AT 4033, a pair of mk(c) 012 oktava's. I have those and a Rode NTK and a pair of Groove Tube 1B's (1 tube 1 fet) and they all get used on different stuff. I don't think you can make a big mistake spending $100 on a mic but at $200 or so you can get something you will look forward to pulling out of the box

 

[EVT]

decisions, decisions...

Hi again,
I made a decision with all your adise... thanks again...
I found the cad-179 new on ebay for $150 I'm going to use it on vocals, and then down the road... maybe I'll pick up some of these other mic's to try out... probably the octaveas 012's to try on micin' acoustic guitar.

Big Kenny-- the rode NTK... is amazing I bet. If I had the money I would be into trying it and all of these mic's.... On one of the mic threads.. I heard some guy from scotland's song called penny i think... and it was mic'd with a studio projects B-1 (vocals, and acoustic guitar) and I was way into the sound the song was really good too.
I can't wait to try out the cad-179...Let's see how long it takes to get here...
thanx everybody for the help...
evt

 

[OneRoomStudios]

Watch me hijack this thread....

Thanks for the great post Richard! And EVT, having a multi-pattern mic is great, I'm sure you'll be pleased with the m-179.

For those of you that would know, how do the SP B3 and the M-179 compare? I have heard the M-179 before and was pleased, but I have yet to hear a B3. They're both about the same price, and they're both multi-patterned LDC's. I would imagine that the B3 is a little brighter. If you were to choose one to mic both vocals and acoustic guit, which one would you pick? Of course I know it depends on the voice, guitar, room, position, preamp...etc, but all things being equal, is one more flexible than the other? Thanks,

-Peter

 

[chessrock]

I know it depends on the voice, guitar, room, position, preamp...etc

That probably answers your own question right there, I would assume. Not trying to be a smartass or anything. It's likely a question of personal taste.