Good/Bad Compressor Tone

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lcjones

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I would like to learn more about compressors. I have zero knowledge of using a compressor. It seems using compressors is an art form to learn.

I'm not sure this is a valid questions but if someone has the time and inclination, could I be pointed to sound files that show the difference between good compressor tone and bad compression tone?

Happy holidays and Merry Christmas too!

**
LC
 
I would like to learn more about compressors. I have zero knowledge of using a compressor. It seems using compressors is an art form to learn.

I'm not sure this is a valid questions but if someone has the time and inclination, could I be pointed to sound files that show the difference between good compressor tone and bad compression tone?

Happy holidays and Merry Christmas too!

**
LC

You're gonna hate this answer, but there isn't anything like that as far as I know. The thing you're going to want to do is start playing with as good a compressor as you can get your hands on and see what sounds good *to you*. Sometimes it's the right thing to absolutely crush a vocal...other times a light tap is all you want. There's no "good" and "bad"...context is everything.

Frank
 
You're gonna hate this answer, but there isn't anything like that as far as I know. The thing you're going to want to do is start playing with as good a compressor as you can get your hands on and see what sounds good *to you*. Sometimes it's the right thing to absolutely crush a vocal...other times a light tap is all you want. There's no "good" and "bad"...context is everything.

Frank
Good answer ^. Do some basic reading. Learn about attack, release, ratio settings and what you're actually doing, then get a good compressor and start turning knobs and use your ears.
 
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by compressor "tone", but if you mean frequency modifications, then this ain't the normal role for a compressor, that's the role of an equalizer (unless it's a multiband compressor, which is essentially multiple parallel compressors operating independently in different frequency regions).

Regarding compressors, I could give you some quick starters (I remember it took me some time to understand it). Compressors are *very* versatile tools, and the theory is actually simple; the idea is to dynamically reduce volume peaks in the audio, often in order to be able to (AFTER the compression) increase the overall volume of the audio without reaching the clip limit (sometimes called gain-riding, peak limiting, maximizing intensity or whatever people call it). It is somewhat like first "averaging" the audio with a compressor, simply put, and then raise the overall volume after the compression. And what about all those knobs? Well, it's easy too:

"Threshold" is at which particular volume the audio will be reduced in volume (audio below the threshold will be unaffected).
"Ratio" is how much the audio will be reduced.
"Attack" is how fast the compressor will react to peaks and start to work.
"Release" is how fast the compressor will release and return to the unaffected volume level.
"Knee" is how the region around the threshold looks like; often hard or soft, "hard" being "linear" volume change, and soft being "exponential", "smooth" volume change.

Simple, eh? Well, sorry to say, what's not easy is how to master the technique. As users have said above, I have to agree with them: the only thing to do is to try it for yourself, and try it with different types of audio. Experiment and experience is the key here, sadly. Compression can and *will* sound very differently depending on compressor type, settings and the audio being processed.

Nevertheless here are some starting points for you (settings propositions which I've collected from various sources, god knows where, and sorry for the shitty format, but here you go):

SOURCE|ATTACK|RELEASE|RATIO|KNEE|GAIN REDUCTION
Vocal (normal) 25-100 ms 100-500ms/Auto 2:1-8:1 Soft 3-8dB
Vocal (rock) 25-100 ms 100-300ms 4:1-10:1 Hard 5-15dB
Acoustic guitar 5-10ms/100-500 ms 100-500ms/Auto 4-10:1 Medium 5-12dB
Electric guitar 2-5ms 500ms/Auto 8:1 Hard 5-15dB
Elec. guitar (raging) 25 ms 1-2 sec 4-8:1 Hard 5-15dB
Drums (Kick & snare) 1-25ms 25-200ms/Auto 4-10:1 Hard 5-15 dB
Drums (Cymbals) 25 ms 1-2 sec 2-10:1 Hard 5-15 dB
Bass 2-10ms 500ms/Auto 4-12:1 Hard 5-15dB
Bass (Clicky) 25 ms 25 ms 4-12:1 Hard 5-15dB
Bass (Mushy) 100-500 ms 100-500 ms 4:1 Hard 5-15dB
Brass (Horns) 1-25ms 25-300ms/Auto 5-15:1 Hard 8-15dB
Mixes Fast 400ms/Auto 2-6:1 Soft 2-10dB(Stereo Link On)
General Fast 500ms/Auto 5:1 Soft 10dB
Very low frequencies (below 20 Hz) present in a soundfile should be removed before compression; this makes it easier to monitor audible frequencies while compressing.

I'd say, when used correctly, compression can almost always be used to improve audio. Particularly vocals, which almost always needs compression. And things which might have been recklessly played (tough guitar or bass tracks, where certain tones are unintentionally less loud than others). Background sounds and pads also very often gain (no pun intended) from compression. And weak drums (particularly bass drums, snares and toms) can be (and very often are) compressed in order to get that *twang* out of them.

You can use a compressor when recording (i.e. recording with an external compressor connected) if you are afraid of peak clipping during the recording.
This is often the case with vocals, which generally has a very dynamic range. But, you can also use software compressors after you've recorded; there are quite a few very good ones out there. Personally, I almost always compress anything and everything, but that's me:p.

And last - but certainly not least - compression on the entire final stereo mix (the mastering process) is a very, VERY common method to reduce the dynamic range in order to be able to increase the overall final loudness of a track, sometimes called the "loudness war" for radio stations. But final mastering, that's another story, and not told here...

Here's a good starting guide with a couple of chapters on dynamic processors (incl. compressors) and even a pdf:

www-dot-rane-dot-com/note155-dot-html
(replace dots with "."; this forum does not allow me yet to add full url:s)

Well, this reply is starting to look like a seminar, so that's it for now. Can't use any audio compressor on this reply:).

Regards, and good luck compressing!
/DeNilson
 
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Thanks for the kind words, Lambo!

If I may continue my seminar just a tad, I'd like to add the following important stuff which I forgot:

Another very common use of the compressor is to increase the sustain (i.e. decay time) of an instrument (often a guitar, and often a distorted guitar, at least in my studio:)). Sometimes you find yourself having trouble to get that long ring from a guitar, and the only thing seems to be to turn up the drive (dist). But, maybe you don't want to, maybe you want a gentle dist AND a long ringing. Then you smack in a compressor, and perhaps add a little background reverb/short delay to fatten up the ringing tone.

And another thing - and this is as important as learning how to use compressors - there are problems to watch out for!:eek: From my post above, it may have sounded that compressors are always good and perfect for everything and we all live happily ever after. Sorry, no, the big downside is that you always lose dynamics with them. Here's a good reason why one must learn how to use them: You can quite easily ruin the ever-so-important dynamics needed in music. You almost never want the entire track or an individual instrument to be perfectly equally leveled throughout a track, this would be *boring* (except for possibly certain chill-out/trance stuff).
So, the more compression you add to a track, generally the more work you will be having to do during the mixing stage, in order to achieve the desired dynamics. Hate to scare you, but it needs to be told.
 
Thanks guys! And thank you!, DeNilson. That's the detail I'm in need of. Your notes are a great help.

From my original question, I should have said "over compression" rather than compression tone. I have recorded tunes where I've been told I've used too much compression or over compressed way too much.

As an example, one of my instruments is a Rickenbacker 360/12. I'm looking to make that jangly sustained tone, i.e., REM/Petty/Richard X Heyman . Especially in the higher registry. Here's how I would hook up the Ric.

Ric > Comp/Sus Pedal/ > Preamp > MixerIN > RackComp(Insert) > MixerMains

I get nice guitar tones and similar to what I want but in the final mix, I almost always have to crank up the volume on the Ric track.

And back to my original post, perhaps I should make my own sample recordings of the Ric without compression (dead dry) and then make recordings with compression at various settings and post them and see if I or we can hear what's what.

Again, thanks guys! A very good seminar to be sure!

**
LC
 
...and on another note.... removing the lower 20hz freqs and not to sound too awfully ignorant, though it's easy for me to do :) , that would be done via EQ management, right?

**
LC
 
Right on, eq there. That 20 Hz thing got directly copied from my collected notes on settings, they're not my own words.

Well, I was about to post a note on eq'ing and you beat me to it. But it will be just a short note, don't want to change the subject from compression; equalizing is another *big* (probably bigger) subject.

You said "I get nice guitar tones and similar to what I want but in the final mix, I almost always have to crank up the volume on the Ric (bass) track."

Well, don't forget that equalizing is very useful in order to define the frequency ranges of different instruments, in order to make them stand out and collaborate with each other. Basses are no different here; I often find myself lacking that clear and defined bass in various parts of a track, but then you should IMO first of all go for equalizing it. And it's so dependent of everything else (the style, number and types of other instruments, tempo etc etc), that it's no use looking at/hearing the bass track alone; you have to compare it when played with everything else. What you particularly is looking out for is 1) if the bass is (eq-wise) satisfyingly collaborating with the bass drum, 2) collaborating (not mutually mudding together) with deep (low-freq) pad sounds/keyboards/synth basses and 3) low freq-ranges of guitars.

And eq is an art (ore many arts, actually) in itself, so I'll end this seminar with saying that eq'ing should in 9 cases out of 10 be performed by *cutting* different regions and *not* boosting - all different for every type of instrument and brand that's out there. A quickie starters for basses here:

Eq: cut bottom, cut toprange if noisy
Pan: dead center
Compression: Fierce with slow attack & fast release
Fx: None, maybe chorus or light flange, no reverb

My addition is you can also try cutting some narrow midband eq - wherever your ears desire - if you want to define the bass more from other instruments.
But always remember, *every* instrument will sound *very* differently when played alone compared to played with everything else.

Merry eq'ing, and happy holidays!
Oh, if you like more info, please send me a personal message through this forum in which you give me your email. I can then send you my own collection of notes - there will be more than you can handle for Christmas, and the next, and the next...;)
 
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by compressor "tone"

What if he was referring to exactly what he said. If you really don't know what tone means, think of the difference between a Dual Rectifier vs. a JCM 2000, and apply it to the less-extreme compression used in a recording context. Both of those amps crushingly overcompress a guitar signal to the point of extreme harmonic distortion, right? Well, each has a markedly-different tone while doing so. The sound of one of these amps cannot be emulated on the other amp by using EQ, or anything else, whether you perform the manipulation before or after the compression takes place. They just sound different, and there's no escaping that each one has it's own place in certain musical context, despite basically doing the same job. People often call this difference "Tone".

When comparing line-level compressors, many very successful (thus very difficult-to-ignore) people often allude to this kind of inescapable tone-difference as being the advantage of one unit over another. Discussions over these units almost never include objectively identifiable points as the sole basis, but rather revolve around the "tone".

Your posts in this thread, thusfar, are informative, and I've pos-repped you for them appropriately, seeing as how he said he didn't know much about compression.

edit: Just to be clear on where I am coming from: I use compressors day in and day out on every project with every artist that I have ever worked with, whether it's live sound or recording. I track through hardware compressors and gates, and I mix with both hardware and software dynamics processors making full use of their many different applications, from delicate side-chain keying across multiple tracks to flat-out clipping-on-purpose - I have no questions as to what the equipment's intended uses are, I've got a bookshelf full of manuals for that so please...don't bother :p.
 
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Save your money and get a great hardware compressor. Some plugs are nice for ITB stuff, but I rarely track with them.

My distressor gets a lot of action, and I hope to build an LA2A someday.

I absolutely rely on my Sonitus LA2A plug for mixing.
 
Save your money and get a great hardware compressor. Some plugs are nice for ITB stuff, but I rarely track with them.

My distressor gets a lot of action, and I hope to build an LA2A someday.

I absolutely rely on my Sonitus LA2A plug for mixing.

I'm glad you showed up, and said what you said. You recommend the distressor because of the "tone", right? That's certainly the reason that I thought the one I heard sounded good, anyway... It wasn't because it could limit dynamics much better than a 160 (or anything else), it just sounded different while it did so...in a very good way. The other posters in this thread kinda jumped on this guy's ass insinuating that the "tone" question regarding compressors is not a legitimate one. It is a legitimate question, and you have given the first legitimate answer.

@OP: You'll likely have more luck on gearslutz with this question, if you're looking for answers like Supercreep's (which I think you are). There's quite a few more people over there with experience with a lot of high-end stuff who understand what that part of your question means. Don't get me wrong, we have a few folks with some nice racks here, Supercreep being one of them - but there are a lot of them over there. They are kinda rude over there, though, when it comes to things like asking for help with understanding how to use a compressor, so this place is much better for that.

Also, if nymorningstar had't already linked to it, I would have dropped the link to independentrecording.net in my first post - fantastic source of information.
 
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I'm glad you showed up, and said what you said. You recommend the distressor because of the "tone", right?

Absolutely, and good example in the 160A/X. Some comps are fairly invisible and are good for limiting and gentle dynamics processing. Some, like the LA2A, have tone improving qualities I can't really describe without using a bunch of subjective and squishy language. I chose the Distressor for my first "real" comp because it does some things others can't do, and does everything else reasonably well. It's a good "swiss army knife" type unit.

I have a pile of cheap compressors I don't use often. I use the distressor and my LA2A plugs in multiple ways on every song. My JoeMeek, RNC, RNLA, and DBX don't get nearly as much action.
 
Yeah, guys, I know... but what you are talking about now is more a university course than a seminar :). We all know that the theoretical role of (broadband) compression has nothing to do with eq and harmonics, those tones you're referring to comes from the (sometimes desirable, non-linear) side-effects of (ideally linear) analog compression, i.e. "faults" in the compression process. Since the original poster said he knew nothing about compression, I thought I'd share the basic theory. IMHO, tone questions comes into play after you have learned how to use compressors for what they are supposed to do.

But you might be right about what he meant, but then the tone question is not about compression itself, then it is, as you say, about which particular compressor to use. And then, I silently bow and keep quiet... :rolleyes:
 
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Eq: cut bottom, cut toprange if noisy
Pan: dead center
Compression: Fierce with slow attack & fast release
Fx: None, maybe chorus or light flange, no reverb

why on earth no reverb? I tend to use little reverb on everything, right to "open" the sound a bit. if you use reverb on all the instrument but bass, this will tend to sound innatural IMO.
surely depends on the context (also for compression, settings can vary depending on what you're trying to achieve sound-wise, genre-wise...etc).
anyway for the rest you said I agree with you...
 
Those starter settings are not my own words, that's from notes I've collected from god knows where. If I would write on bass fx, I would add that phaser, and sometimes even distortion (which I tend to like), and sometimes even bad distortion could be employed successfully with basses. But I've often, very often, read - and found out for myself - that reverb seldom is an ideal solution for basses - it's so easy to "mud up" the lower freq range of a song. You mentioned that you put reverb on everything, and therefore basses should have it too. Aren't you now talking about that general subtle mastering reverb that the entire mix can benefit from? Or you might be talking about very, *very* short reverb on the bass track itself, possibly, I don't know.
 
Talking about EQ and dynamics processing "settings" doesn't make sense to me outside the context of a specific song with specific needs.

I try to get the mix in front of the mic so that I don't have to "fix" things with EQ later.

YMMV of course, but since mic choice and placement yield such drastic differences in sound, it seems the advice regarding an ounce of prevention might apply here; reverb, EQ, and other processing can't really fix a bad mic placement or a bad sounding instrument.
 
Totally agreed, Supercreep. Shit in, shit out...:D But everybody can't afford every hardware (instruments, mics, fx) out there (including me) so we have to make the best out of what we've got, and use simulators for the rest. Or save money and get the best most versatile unit we can afford. However, the notes I've collected on eq and everything else has helped me *a lot* in achieving improvements in my audio. I knew almost zero about audio processing ten years ago, before I started to read about it from pros.

Supercreep, you (and TyphoidHippo) mentioned quite a few units, and the only ones of them I've heard about was the JoeMeek and DBX, so I am *very* far from a compressor hardware expert. Would you mind telling me which ones are your favorite(s) for what kind(s) of operation(s)? I understand that you liked the distressor and LA2A, but for what purposes? By all means, please use subjective language, can't avoid it when answering such a question:p. And which compressor(s) do you think are the most transparent? And, if you would be so kind, could you state their full names (brand, model)? And, do you know if there are any software simulators available for any of those you mention? God, I'm cheap and lazy...:cool: ...but very thankful for answers, incl. subjective ones. I'm particularly interested in which compressor you favor the most as a mastering compressor. And for drums, oops, almost forgot that. Ok, for vocals as well. Ok, for *everything*, hell, better be honest.
 
Ymmv

I have used my LA2A plug for my vocals, bass guitar, acoustic guitars, mandolin, hand percussion, and piano. Maybe it won't work on somebody else's vocals, it's purely a matter of taste. Basically, I will try the plug at it's default settings and know if it's going to work or not right away. The LA2A makes stuff "gel" together, and can really set a vocal line in the mix. You'll know it when you hear it.

Sonitus' 1176 plug is interesting but doesn't have the "magic" the LA2A does to my ears. I've tried the real unit, and its amazing, but the difference (to my amateur ears) between the plug and the hardware isn't a $3k difference to me. I hear nice things about the UAD plugs as well.

I like Distressor on drum room mic (each ratio to various degrees, "nuke" is cool but it's definitely not subtle), kick, snare, toms, you name it. You can do subtle stuff with it too, including tape emulation and distortion. I've used it on overheads, vocals, bass, and guitars, too. Drums are the main application I keep turning to the distressor for, however.

The Joemeek can be cool too on snare and kick, I've got some good tom sounds out of it, too. It's a little more finicky than the distressor, and I'm not sure if I'd buy a TwinQ just for the compression. You can work magic on the kick drum with this one, though.

The DBX 160A is great on snare. I think the distressor sounds better.

For gentle stuff I have used FMR's RNC and RNLA. The RNC's super-nice mode is quiet and gets the job done without any problems. I don't like it on bass guitar.

The RNLA I have yet to find a "silver bullet" application for, but she waits in the wings for a chance at it.

Some people can't stand the distressor. I'm amazed at how much gain reduction I can get out of it without artifiacts. It's truly a swiss-army type unit. If you listen to "Green Magic" here: http://www.littlepurplecircles.com/ you'll hear the drums and rhythm guitar recorded with a single AT-4050 through a distressor at about a 20:1 ratio. No other mics were used for the drums or rhythm guitars whatsoever.


I've also tried some Behringer "autocom" and "ultracom" stuff, and without exception it destroyed the tone and added a certain flatness that I can only describe as sickly. I once looked at an Alesis 3630.

As you pointed out, all these units compress, and all of them can be used for nuts and bolts dynamics processing (except perhaps the execreble Behringer units). The reason I use them is because of the unique stamp they put on the sound.

I'm not the guy to ask about mastering or buss compression. Sorry, but I just don't know shit about it and so my advice is worse than useless.

-Casey
 
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