Going going ......

  • Thread starter Thread starter Slackmaster2K
  • Start date Start date
Slackmaster2K

Slackmaster2K

Gone
Damnit all. Is it just me or does n-Track get worse with each revision? I can't take this shit anymore. The more "fancy" I need to get, the more n-Track lets me down.

I'm looking for alternatives now. If I dump it I'll have somebody replace me as forum moderator.

Slackmaster 2000
 
I'm hip.....but no Slack nooooooooo

Slack,

Yes I'm having problems myself and I'm not even that fancy yet. I'm stubborn though and I'm used to working with Ntrack so I want it to work. I've made great progress.

And when I bail I'm going to Mac!

Rusty K
 
NTrack 3.0 works fine, why bother with a new version. Just like my win98se works fine, Im not going to downgrade to XP.
Just my 2 cents...
Myx
 
Slack, I understand completely. My own "love hate" relationship with N-Track has leaned toward "hate" a lot more these last few months as I have to mix down 4-5 times on average to finally get a mix that incorporates all of the wavs in the .sng file. I've been asking myself the obvious next question: is there a program out there that is an inexpensive alternative to n-track and has most if not all of its features?

Anyone?

-J
 
Myx62,

Yes 3.0 worked great for me too. I may just go back to it. What's the best way to do that?

Rusty K
 
Slack, I'm surprised to see you bashing ntrack. What do you find is wrong with it?

The main problem I've had is the instability of some releases. i'm currently using 3.1.2, and I don't have any problems. I did for awhile have an issue with ntrack's track capacity which I think is now OK, but may not yet be completely resolved. I also think the ntrack minimizing thing wasn't too well implemented. It would be nice also to have a mechanism for manualy compensating track offset (to help with the whole maudio problem). Also support for ASIO 2. But most of my complaints are minor at this point. Then again, I haven't dabled with midi at all, so i don't know how ntrack fairs in that domain. Anyway, I'm interested in hearing your criticism, and suggestions of other software that would work better.

Ben
 
Last edited:
Are you guys running VIA chipsets or something??? Why don't you post your configurations so we can see?

I'm running a pure Intel setup and am having NO problems.
 
Oh yeah, I'm running a VIA chipset and n-Track is a stable application.

Christ, I've only been running this thing for 3 years, and I've never seen a stable version after 2.3. Sure, if you just hit the record button and do some basic mixing it is pretty "stable."

Let me tell you what doesn't work for shit:

1) Live input processing. Not very well it doesn't.

2) Effect automation. Totally flakey.

3) Drawing volume, pan, and/or aux automation causes tracks to cut out during the mixdown process. There is no fix other than to completely reimplement the track.

4) Fruity VSTi doesn't work with anything less than 3.1.4, and it doesn't work well (random synch problems) even with the newest version unless you play some tricks with WDM, which sucks because I only use ASIO. Oh, and random crashes, yippie. Oh, and the multi-output version doesn't work at all.

5) The piano roll editor is a god damn joke. Crashes randomly (try dragging notes). Doesn't always trigger properly, nor does note length work right with all instruments. Doesn't grab note names from VSTi. Not to mention that it's very difficult to use.

6) Sample rate conversion is seriously flawed if you happen to have ears that can hear high frequencies. Not even that, it's mega slow.

7) Random crashes with certain VST effects and instruments, like PSP Pianoverb which is one of my favorites. (Which works fine in other VST apps like Wavelab, mind you.)

8) Everything after 3.0.5 has taken a serious performance hit. Don't believe me? Well, you have to actually push your system before you can notice a performance hit. Most of my projects hit ~24 24bit tracks with heavy processing so every ounce of processor is very neccessary. I have a test project by which I can easily measure performance, and everything 3.1 and up is about 15% harder on the CPU than anything else, because now I get dropouts at 75% usage. Everybody is so caught up in which chipset people are using that they'd never think that the application is flawed.

9) When you hit the "Delete file" button when removing a track, the track is not deleted, and I've got scores of messy bloated folders to prove it.

10) Mixing down "live" produces static.

11) Aux returns are mistakenly routed back to the wrong outputs when using a Delta, and the only fix is to limit ASIO/WDM output to two channels. Haven't verified if this is still a problem on 3.1.6, but it is a problem with 3.0-3.1.

12) Ever since 3.0 the mixer has been a major CPU hog. He fixed it a little bit somewhere around 3.1 but it's still a major hog.

How many of those problems are an issue for me during a regular project? Almost all of them. I'm sick and tired of it. No more features that don't work right...if he'd concentrate on getting one feature at a time rock solid I'd be much happier.

Now I've personally gotten several bugs in n-Track fixed...most recently the "VU meters anticipate output" bug which also, not suprisingly, "worked fine for everybody" until Flavio recognized it and fixed it. I think it's great that flavio is supportive, but if he can't reproduce a problem, it doesn't exist and almost everybody at the ntrack site is such a damn fanboy that real problems can't be addressed without a major brawl.

My system is on a 440BX chipset, unarguably the most stable chipset we've ever seen in a DAW. I'm running Windows 2000 as well, and we all know n-Track loves 2K. I'm using a Delta 1010 which is a pretty damn typical system now that gadgetlabs is gone. I'm an engineer with a computer science degree so I'm vaguely familiar with using computers, and I know when an application pisses me off to no end.

It's not so much the program itself, it's that I've recommended it so much. I'm tired of recommending it, and I'm tired of the people I recommend it to coming here with all these bullshit problems that are extremely difficult to solve. I refuse to be "loyal" to ones and zeros. When n-Track works I like it, when it blows my night, I hate it.

I'm not giving up on n-Track, but I am through pretending like it's a nice stable little application. It's ok for 60 bucks and I'm afraid there's reall nothing else out there with all the features that I really want....so that doesn't help my mood any.

Sorry for being so negative,

Slackmaster 2000
 
13) The pause button doesn't work! THE PAUSE button! Oh sure it pauses but it never unpauses.

14) When seeking using ASIO, whatever was last in the ASIO buffer is blasted repeatedly until n-track rebuffers and starts playing again. This is extremely annoying when workin on a delicate selection.

Slackmaster 2000
 
I've had problems hitting record while allready in playback. In some releases, app crashes when coming back out of record, in others there are timing issues. Don't know if this is still a problem with most current release.
 
A few thoughts from an ameture!
I am using N-track, 2.3,I believe,w/a 16bit card,win 98.I generally only use it for recording wave files(I'm w/you on the midi/piano roll thing,next to useless).I don't know the first thing about VST anything,so I don't understand the issue there!Anything midi,I import from a basic version of Cakewalk.It would be nice to be able to do everything in N-Track,though
Maybe it is time for you to move up to another program,but from the sound of it,there is nothing(that you are aware of,or can afford)that will do what you are trying to do!Is that correct?If so,maybe you need to step back and evaluate wheather your software will bend for you,or you bend for the software.Or some comprimise in between.Again,I'm an ameture,just trying to use N-Track pretty much like an analog multitracker,which,IMHO it will do very well!Then again,I'm just an old Metalhead,trying to write some tunes.I certainly haven't pushed the program to it's limits,not to mention not dealing with 24/96 and other aspects of it's ability to handle more complex hardware and software configurations.
In closing,unless you have a plan to find something else(that will do what you want,and you can afford)maybe you should taylor your creativity to what you have to work with,instead of visa/versa!
 
The problem is that my creativity has outgrown "the norm". If I wanted to continue on just recording my guitar then I'd just record my guitar. Heck, I could avoid a lot of hassle and just drag out the ol' 4 track machine.

You know, it's not like this stuff is outside the norm...virtual synths aren't exactly "obscure" technology. A piano roll editor isn't something that only a few select people use. If the n-track piano roll editor worked right I could use a vsti sampler to do my drum tracks instead of exporting from fruity, which would save me a lot of time and allow me to be more creative. If fruity as a VSTi worked right it I could do the same thing, and it would save me a lot of time and allow me to be more creative. And so on and so forth. See my point? I'm irritated because my needs have grown and I'm hitting the ceiling of n-track's capabilities.

I'm just frustrated I guess, mostly because n-Track is *supposed* to be able to do all these things...and I do use it for all of those things, it just doesn't do them well enough to allow the brain to concentrate fully on the process of creation, which is really what a DAW should be able to offer. I'm well aware that I only paid a total of $80 over the past few years for n-Track. I'm also aware that Flavio is a one man show and that I should respect him, and I do. That doesn't change the fact that there are features in the program that I want to use but can't because the program is flawed.

My frustration was of course furthur aggrevated by people telling me that n-Track is "rock solid", but that's what I should have expected venting publically.

I appologize to everyone for this explosion - especially to Tim, I shouldn't have been so sarcastic.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Some thoughts

One thing I don't understand is why do these software writers get into changing the "look" of the software? That seems more of a marketing thing than an actual improvement to the software and especially nonesential in a "one man operation". Why not spend less time trying to compete with the more expensive programs and covering too many functions and zero in on making a basic software that is reliable. That may not do for some working on very complex recording projects but they may just be ready to graduate to another program......dare I say Pro Tools.

Slack....I hope you don't mind but I put your post up on the FAsoft discussion board under the subject "The natives are restless". I did not mention names or where the post was first placed but because of my respect for our moderator I thought they were valid criticisms and might even get some results.

This may seem like a reach but I think this is a symptom of the larger problem of the laging hightech industry as a whole. Why should someone upgrade to check emails?

For creative people who want to use a computer for more than just checking emails, sending pics to the family and chatting many have run into the problem of the machine actually getting in the way of creativity. It's kind of a two edged sword but there is nothing more frustrating to an artist than having his creative juices dried up by egghead technical problems. Ok so it could be argued that maybe computer recording should be left to the eggheads (no disrespect intended) but then I think the whole concept of the "wired" "plugged in" thing is a moot point.

When my computer/software is working I am thankful that I am able to connect with the "production" talents I've always known that I have but had been unable to tap into.

Rusty K
 
Damnit guys...

http://216.194.77.119/cgi-bin/ikonboard/ikonboard.cgi?s=3da07c556ddcffff;act=ST;f=1;t=356

Listen shack & rusty, I understand why you thought it appropriate to drag this post over to fasoft, but I wish you would have asked first or something. (rusty, thanks for hiding my identity, but my post alone would have given me away, as I've recently mentioned at least one of those things there, and have probably mentioned most of them in personal emails to flavio)

Every one of those "flaws" has been brought up at fasoft by myself or others. I also wouldn't have addressed that forum in such a negative manner had I intened to rehash them.

I was venting - everybody *here* knows I do that from time to time. If we wanted to take something to fasoft, it would have been more appropriate to have compiled some big list of bugs and posted it there in a more professional manner.

At any rate, this has never left the public domain and I bear sole responsibility for everything I said. You guys did nothing wrong and I'm not pissed off...but in the future try to consider the context of things that are written, which includes the audience to which they are addressed.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Hopefully some good will come of all this...they say the squeaky wheel gets the grease....:D

seriously, N-Track is worth every dime you pay for it....theres no argument there.....

it would be an INSANE value if it actually did everything it said it does (the 14+ things you mentioned).....
 
Slack,

I sincerely apologize man. I guess I kind of think in sort of a "we're all in this together" kind way and It didn't occure to me that you might not want to say it the other forum. I've never seen one of your posts there.

Go check out the two pages already accumulated on the post and they are all I think directed to me as it was my post.

You are farther along down the road than I but I don't think you get any more frustrated when I'm on a creative roll and then it screws me.....yes sometimes I screw myself.

Yes Gidge....frustration makes one want to stir the pot!

It just takes time to wade through all the tech stuff.

Rusty K
 
Ok I've read some more posts on this subject and it's off-shoot threads in the hinterland.

I've invested in Ntrack and I want it to work but I think the boss needs to know if something is not. What I don't understand is these incrimental versions each time adding something new (usually things I don't need yet).

After all think of it! It had many fewer of these goodies when you where convinced to purchase the product. We all have a wish list of things we'd like to see in the software always striving for ProTools capabilities at a journeyman's price.

Screw the constant revisons! Bug fixes only! Until this program is rock solid on a variety of platforms.

Slack you may be at the place where you need to step up to a different software. I haven't even looked into what it would cost me to move into ProTools so I don't know what I'd do in your shoes.

I'm going to try to go back to 3.0. Would someone please walk me through the best way to go back.

Thanks,

Rusty K
 
To go back you'll need an older installer. Assuming you have one, then:

1) Uninstall n-Track.

2) Destroy the n-Track folder completely.

3) Run the old installer.

4) Reconfigure all of your preferences.

*NOTE* projects created with 3.1.6 are not compatible with prior versions of the software. You will have to finish them off in 3.1.6. I'm not sure if this applies if you've simply opened and saved a project with 3.1.6, but I reckon so.

In a related topic, wouldn't it be cool if n-Track had a feature to expand all wave files to a zero offset? Haha, see first I get mad because existing features don't work, and then I pipe up with a new feature idea...perhaps therein lies the problem.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Maybe I Won't go back....damn!

Yes the wish-list thing I was talking about.

Again Slack I apologize for any trouble I've caused you. I hope you will continue to keep us posted on your decision. I might hit the wall someday myself so your experience would be very helpful.

Rusty K
 
Aw what the hell, it doesn't matter so much. I hope you expected it though!

This happens a lot really. Somebody will have problems with a piece of software and they'll flame in a place where people are big fans of the software....bam!

Haha, now that my mood is better it does make me laugh. Some of the comments to your post were pretty funny really.

I know that I've helped hundreds of people get up and running in this forum and the other forums here, and I've been helped thousands of times. In times like these it's best to just appologize and move on :)

Odd though how some people think that n-Track topics should only be addressed at the fasoft site, isn't it?

Slackmaster 2000
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top