Going back to pro studio

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tjohnston

tjohnston

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Don’t get me wrong; I love the concept of home recording. It's just that there is no way in bloody hell I can get the sound quality I want in my living room. The neighborhood is just too noisy and the house acoustics are crap. In order to record I have to turn off the fridge and the air conditioning. The house gets so hot that my guitar goes out of tune. All of these problems require money. By the time they add up it will take thousands of dollars to put together a decent recording space. It’s actually less expensive to go to a professional studio. I have recorded things that sound good but its just so @#$%^ difficult that its hardly worth it. Ill see you folks later> Thanks for the entertainment.
 
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tjohnston said:
Don’t get me wrong; I love the concept of home recording. It's just that there is no way in bloody hell I can the sound quality I want in my living room. The neighborhood is just too noisy and the house acoustics are crap. In order to record I have to turn off the fridge and the air conditioning. The house gets so hot that my guitar goes out of tune. All of these problems require money. By the time they add up it will take thousands of dollars to put together a decent recording space. It’s actually less expensive to go to a professional studio. I have recorded things that sound good but its just so @#$%^ difficult that its hardly worth it. Ill see you folks later> Thanks for the entertainment.


I feel your pain, man. The upstairs neighbors, 4 yr old daughter makes more noise than a pack of Harleys. Makes it hard tracking vox and acoustic guitars. The good news is, I've givin' up on trying to be a respectful neighbor and when the little shit gets too loud, I blast my guitar or bass and they usually get the point.
 
Don't get rid of what you've got - It's called "Pre Production" and it's what started the whole home recording craze to begin with.

Going into the studio - PREPARED for it - is worth more than just gear...
 
I want those babies to go to a good home; one where they will be loved and cared for like I did . Im sure you will see them on EBAY
 
I record at home mainly for fun, because I enjoy it. Sure I flick out demos to pubs and clubs to try and get gigs but if I ever need to record something for serious public consumption I'll go to a proper studio.

I'm always trying to improve but I think I know my limitations and so I don't get too frustrated. I don't expect 'pro' results and I'm not going to beat myself up because my recordings don't sound 'pro'.
 
Massive Master said:
Don't get rid of what you've got - It's called "Pre Production" and it's what started the whole home recording craze to begin with.

Going into the studio - PREPARED for it - is worth more than just gear...

I agree 100%. Home recording for most of us is pre-production, not pro production. In the long run, it still saves you a lot of $$$ on real studio bills.
 
This is what I've just gone thru. Today I kind of figured it out. The trouble is in all those people who somehow come to believe that they can create a master at home. It happens, but not often.

Learning how producers/engineers work and what they have available to them is what did it for me. I read and re-read, "Behind the Glass." Did this while struggling to get a 'pro' sound, then concluded that I don't have what they have in experience or gear. So then, realistically, I can't expect to get their results. I can however, use what I have to learn, write, demo and go forward without being as frustrated as I have been in the past.
 
Its possible to make great sounding masters at home, but its a lot harder than having great rooms and tools available to you at a great studio. I bounce back and forth from small projects in homes to some of the most expensive studios ever built and I gotta say that its a real joy to work in a great room and makes the job so much easier. There are a few big mistakes/hurdles that tons of home recordists deal with that can really hold them back from making really cool masters on their own.

1)They buy the wrong gear. They spend money in ways that does not really help. For instance they will buy a ton of low end mics instead of 2 or 3 really good mics. If you have a great mic like an AT tube 4060 (about $600 used) and a decent mic pre you actually have to work at it to get a crummy sound. The gear does almost all the work. Or they will spend more money on plug ins than mics. It all starts with the mics!!!! If you do not have $600 for a mic, spend $75 on a Shure SM57 and start building up a good quality collection. I am not a mic snob, but it’s a reality. If you actually get a chance to A-B a really good quality mic against cheap mics like the MXL, CAD, or Studio Projects you will hear why great mics are so important. The mic does most of the work for you and cheap mics can actually work against you. I am not saying that cheap mics do not have their place but a Studio Projects mic sounds like a good “project studio” mic and a really good mic from AT or Neuman or Shure sounds like a pro mic.

2) They do not have the chance to learn how to do stuff. This is not a criticism, but a reality. Its too bad that the old system of people learning to record by assisting others has pretty much gone away. You can learn more from working with a great engineer on one album, than spending months on a message board or reading books. A great engineer can make a great sounding master with a four track cassette, a few Shure SM57s and a good compressor.

3) They try to match the sound of records done by great engineers in the best rooms. This is a good exercise, but not the best way to go if you are trying to make masters. The best home recordings are those that embrace the environment they are in and try to make records that could not have been made anywhere else. You may not have the live chamber at Capitol, but Capitol does not have your bathroom or your garage. Ocean Way might have a great Hammond B3, but they do not have the funky organ your gramma left you after she died. The best home recordings are those that sound truly unique, and have original sounds and arrangements. If the sounds and arrangement are really unique there is a fine line between crappy and genius. The great producer Brian Eno said something to the affect of “The more conventional the music gets, the harder you have to work, because its gets more bogged down with expectations and standards.

4) They live in studio bubbles cut off from the outside world except for things like this forum. I can not overstate how valuable it is to bring people in to help out with recording. I am not necessarily talking about other engineers, but other musicians to come in play on stuff. Musicians bring with them tons of expertise, for instance an acoustic guitar player might come in an say “when I worked with this great engineer, he did this trick with my guitar mic and it sounded amazing” Other players can also give you feedback on your work and bring in arrangement ideas. A great arrangement will make your recordings sound better than buying the best mic in the world. Also if you have a little bit of a budget, and are really trying to make a serious release, think about hiring some one else to mix. First off you do not have to spend all the money on mix gear, and as long as you have not screwed up the tracks with dumb processing, a great mixer can bring your home recordings up several levels. Its funny, one of the best sounding records I have ever worked on was a record I mixed for a guy in Canada who recorded his whole album with Mackie Pre Amps, one AKG 414, and a Shure SM58 recorded to a Tascam DA-88 in his bedroom. I put in on my demo reel next to stuff I worked on at Real World or top LA studios.

5) They worry more about having more emulation options than real stuff. For instance rather than buying a real Fender Rhodes, they will spend more money on sample based emulators, or instead of buying a real amp they will buy a Pod. Emulators have their place, but they do not work as well in mixes and contrary to common belief they are often more limited that their real counterparts. If you want a record that will stand up with your favorite records, you will have better luck with a real Fender Rhodes (which has a huge range of sounds when mixed with pedals) than a whole set of Vintage key emulations.

6) This one is probably the biggest and many people will disagree, but people get into computer recording way too early. I think there are few things that will slow down an engineer’s learning curve than buying a computer based recording system. Using simple tools will help new engineers learn about recording on a much deeper level and help them learn much more about getting things to sound right at the source, and help them learn to commit to decisions. Also many people that get into computer based recording end up spending more time dealing with the computer than the music and micing etc. I am not against computers in music. I started doing music with computers in the 80s, but I see it over an over again that people get bogged down dealing with computers instead of learning the art of recording. If your experience varies than that is great. But I would bet that a new engineer with a small mixer and some ADATs will learn more in a year and probably far more productive than an equal engineer that starts with a computer based system. ADATs get bashed a lot (some of it deserved), but they sound as good as many of the cheap audio interfaces and the 33 million people that bought Alanis Morisettes breakthrough album did not seem to mind.

Wow, I did not intend to rant on this long…..
 
aaah you are coming around like so many others. Business has started to increase again for thee nubs (which accounts for the lack of recent presence on these boareds) as I see folks like you starting to rediscover the studio. Nothing beets good rooms, good equipment that IS STABLE and well maintained and a knowledable and efficient engineer that allows you to focus on your music rather than making sure your levels are correct. Also as you may recall decent studios are stocked full of excellent amps, guitars, well tuned drumsets, etc. When push comes to shove and you plan on actually releasing something to the public it is very wise to put the recording of your music into the hands of professionals. One thing I have enjoyed about the home recording "revolution" is that musicians these days tend to be more knowledable about the recording process and now respect professionals more than in the past after having tried home recording for years and have finally realized the amount of experience that is required to track and mix a full band with professional sounding results.
 
The longer the rant, the more we get. Long Live the Rant. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it....

Also, Long Live Links.

There's this thing that happens maybe to others, it happened to me. Somehow I believed I could get master quality at home. I'd like to know who put that erroneous notion in my thoughts. Then I searched for the best whatever for the lowest price. Then learned how to use it. Then struggled to get quality, then got frustrated. Then got angry about it, ranted, but then I took a step back and got philisophical about it. And now I'm ok. I wouldn't give it up tho. It has been huge learning experience and a lot of work and play and work and sweat and time.

In a nutshell, I learned that home rec is limited, but if you work hard, you can find what does work, and use it. Also, it how a lot of gear works and maybe most of all, it can teach your ears to hear the subleties so when you go to a studio, you are much better prepared and can understand and appreciate the difference and get what you paid for and know that it was worth it.

Also, gain some reality in what it takes to get things done in a studio, how to work and break and how much energy it takes, and how to prepare and importantly as well, how to perform and get the best out of yourself and learn how to repeat that personal best.

Like many things, it's great, but it's not everything. A lot of good stuff has been said in this thread.
 
Ronan said:
If you actually get a chance to A-B a really good quality mic against cheap mics like the MXL, CAD, or Studio Projects you will hear why great mics are so important. The mic does most of the work for you and cheap mics can actually work against you. I am not saying that cheap mics do not have their place but a Studio Projects mic sounds like a good “project studio” mic and a really good mic from AT or Neuman or Shure sounds like a pro mic.…..


You make some good points in your post, BUT if some of the studio projects mics had a more prestigious name on the capsule, many of the high end gear snobs (not saying you) would be praising them. Fact is they have been compared in just about every pro audio mag review to all the great large condenser mics of the last 50 years. In a side by side blind fold there is no way anyone would describe the B-1 or C-1 as having a "project studio" sound. The specs are as good as most very high end mics and the resulting sound is certainly not anything less then professional. Many high end studios here in Nashville have added the C-1 to their arsenal and these studios are most definitly not project studios. If you let the cheap price taint your opinion then you cant possibly think a 57 or 58 are pro mics either. This is a new world we live in, the VCR is almost extinct and my family's first one cost $1,700 twenty-five years ago. Technology (and cheap oversees labor) have resulted in pro (not "pro") gear being available at a fraction of the cost it used to be. I found a link to a jazz album that was recorded with all Avlex/superflux mics, these are $70-$300 mics and I challenge anyone to say it's not a truly professional recording.

I own mid to high end mics from Josephson, Neumann, Blue and Shure and my SP B-1 sounds every bit as professional as these mics, most costing 10 or more times as much.
 
You may as well keep your equipment and use it for demo quality stuff or just for fun and practice. Altleast you don't have a crazy dog who can open doors like i do. I would image a home studio is like working at your car at home. Jackstands and breakerbars instead of lifts and impact guns. I've never recorded or even been in a real studio but i don't think any of my friends are content with their studios to produce more than demo quality music.
 
Do your tracking at a studio.

Do the MIXING at home. Mixing can take WAY longer than tracking, and can positively effect the mix the most (provided you didn't track garbage).

Just a thought.
 
junplugged said:
The longer the rant, the more we get. Long Live the Rant. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it....

Also, Long Live Links.

There's this thing that happens maybe to others, it happened to me. Somehow I believed I could get master quality at home. I'd like to know who put that erroneous notion in my thoughts. Then I searched for the best whatever for the lowest price. Then learned how to use it. Then struggled to get quality, then got frustrated. Then got angry about it, ranted, but then I took a step back and got philisophical about it. And now I'm ok. I wouldn't give it up tho. It has been huge learning experience and a lot of work and play and work and sweat and time.

In a nutshell, I learned that home rec is limited, but if you work hard, you can find what does work, and use it. Also, it how a lot of gear works and maybe most of all, it can teach your ears to hear the subleties so when you go to a studio, you are much better prepared and can understand and appreciate the difference and get what you paid for and know that it was worth it.



I think people get too caught up in the quality of sound and forget why they are recording in the first place, thus losing sight of the songs and music they write and worrying about making the quality better and not the songs. A GREAT song performed well is more enjoyable recorded on a 788 than a so-so song done in a pro studio. I remember someone winning a Grammy for an album or score they did in their "home" studio, well when all was said and done their "home" studio was filled with $30,000 worth of pro gear. 99.999% of people will never get anything close to a pro recording at home and more people than not waste money on unnecessary higher end gear when it's not going to make that much of a difference. Most people who record at home wouldn't even know who makes "Real" pro gear, you can't by 99% of real pro gear at musicians friend, these companies don't sell to the general public because the general public aren't going to pay $5000 for a preamp or $8000 for a compression unit. This is what people who record at home are up against. Now all that being said, you can certainly produce good quality recordings at home, but no matter what it's not going to sound like a major label release. I'm a songwriter, I used to get most of my demos done by demo studios, I still do now and then but I record my own demos at home for two reasons, it's much cheaper and I do them MY WAY. Put it this way, I'm able to produce demos that are pitched to major label artists, A&R people, etc., the quality is that good that my publisher doesn't mind bringing in my songs and pitching them along side demos that were done in the studio.
 
Bravo, Ronan.

Lots of great advice, easily overlooked in the prevalent "what can I buy to make my records sound like Brittney's?" mentality.

There's emulation and then there's creation. Back before the Civil War, when I was an art student, they would have kicked my butt out if I had merely copied what was in front of me. So why is this slavish imitation the "ideal" in recording?

You'll NEVER emulate a Nashville studio in your spare bedroom. Give it up. Forget it.

But why are you even trying? Don't you have any ideas of your own? Home studios are the way to be creative. You're not going to spend $$$$/minute in a pro studio futzing with all the ideas you can develop at home. I do a lot of recording but I turn away people who ask, "Can you make me sound like [insert name of CD]?" There's a pro studio across town that specializes in that, honey, get your little monkeybutt over there and start imitating.

Don't emulate, create.
 
new388 said:
You make some good points in your post, BUT if some of the studio projects mics had a more prestigious name on the capsule, many of the high end gear snobs (not saying you) would be praising them. Fact is they have been compared in just about every pro audio mag review to all the great large condenser mics of the last 50 years. In a side by side blind fold there is no way anyone would describe the B-1 or C-1 as having a "project studio" sound.

There is a long thread about this over in the mic forum. But its funny you mention this. My assesment of the SP mics came from a side by side blind fold test. I am not totally blowing off magazine reviews (I read them to) but many of people that write reviews for magazine do not make records for a living.

There are many people that will judge a piece of gear based on the logo, but not realy most of us that have been in the biz for years and work with gear on a day to day basis. Ask a serious pro what they think of the AKG C12-VR. Most reviews will be scathing. A Neuman TLM 103 to me is not nearly as useful as other mics at half the price, despite having the Neuman logo on it.

I am really in love with the Audio Technica tube 4060 (about $600 used, a bit over $800 new). The reason I fell in love with it was because I was doing a record in Asia at a studio that did not have a great mic locker, so we arranged to have a bunch of great mics sent to us from an audiophile engineer in Hong Kong. I think the cheapest mic he sent over was a couple thousand dollars. The artist happened to own an AT4060. We did shoot outs of all out mics and the AT4060 stomped all of the others hands down. We ended up using the AT for voice, acoustic guitar, ethnic instruments, precussion...... The AT really was the sound of the album, and the album was nominated for best engineering for the AIM awards (the Malaysian equivielent of the GRAMMIES)
 
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