GFS BROWNIE Test - rayc

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rayc

rayc

retroreprobate
Hello Folks,
I recently bought a Brownie Classic (GFSdelivered to Australia at less than AUS$69) because I can't Overdrive my valve bass amp. I hope to find an acceptable substitute for a real od'd amp in this pedal. have a listen & let me know what you think sounds best. I'm using my preferred guitar, pick, PU settings etc.

Bruno Royal Artist semi acoustic on bridge pickup into the Brownie Classic which is run into a Marshall Superbass MkII (everything at 12 o'clock except vol) & then a marshall 4 x 12 cab mic'd with a Shure 57 pointing at the edge of the cone into a Focusrite Scalette 8I60.

This set up seems a little "dark" but will do for the test.

Oh, there are parts where I use a standard plectrum & others where I use a "fang" plectrum as the latter is a little brighter/more cutting just for contrast. I've attempted to announce all changes.

The Brownie has Gain, Tone & Volume controls as well as a three way switch that selects Comp (a scooped compressed sound) Power (mid boost plexi sound) & Open (unboosted Plexi). The Power setting is the preset for the Classic Rock & the Brown Sound. There's some crackle noise with some settings of the Brownie which I will learn to control once I'm used to the box.

Brownie:

Bypass
Classic Rock setting
Classic R w Comp
Classic R w Open
Brown Sound setting
Brown w more amp vol
Brown w Comp
Brown w Open
Classic R w fang
Brown Sound w fang

These are the other pedals I have that offer something not disimilar in case one of them sounds better - my ears can't tell.

Other pedals:

Clean gtr standard pick
Clean w fang
Behri Blues OverDrive
Behri BOD w fang
BOSS SDI
BOSS SDI w fang
Behri BassDI21
BDI21 w fang
Big Fluff no sust
Big Fluff w fang
Big Fluff w sustain
Big Fluff w sustain + fang
 
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Depends

What kind of a sound are you looking for?

What mic are you using for the comments? Whether it's a separate mic, or you're just talking loud enough for the guitar mic to pick it up, there's an awful lot of the acoustic sound of the guitar bleeing through. Just an fyi for the future.

Nice test, but again, I'm not sure what you're going for, so I can't really say what's better.

And of course, what's better is what's better to you.

Just out of curiousity, why are you using a bass amp?
 
You've got one fundamental problem with all these test runs - I can hear you strumming. I hear the pick on strings. And that lack of amp volume keeps the speaker stiff sounding. Sadly, none of them realy sound like an overdriven amp. They all sound like pedals into a clean amp. I mean, that's not necessarily bad, but they don't sound like a tube amp going into breakup. For me, I guess the Big Fluff stuff was best. Classic R w Open was okay too.

Honestly buddy, I think you should consider modding that amp to act like a standard guitar amp, or try to find a low watt tube head like the ones everyone always talks about in here these days. We know from your last test that your particular amp won't break up, so sticking pedals in front of it is just giving you the sound of the pedal. If that's the case you might as well get a hardware processor to plug into the amp and dial your sound in there. Just use the amp as a PA basically. I mean, as it is now it's just a really loud clean channel only amp. It's a bass amp. A cool as shit bass amp, but it won't do what you want it to do.

So, to me, you have three options to get the tube crunch sound that you're looking for from a mic'd speaker:
1) Mod your amp to be a guitar amp and use it for all it's worth
2) Buy a different head and save the originality of your classic Marshall piece
3) Use a digital processor unit in front of the amp

And a dark horse 4th option - use sims.
 
Yeah, I thought he was sort of trying to ride a bike with square wheels, but as I said, we obviously don't know what he's going for here. To me, what he demo'd and what he said he wanted didn't quite match up.
 
Man .... that amp doesn't want to distort at all does it?

I have to say though, strumming open chords doesn't seem like a way to test a distortion box. I'd much rather hear some palm muting on those crunch sounds and a bit of lead work for the more distorted sounds.

I feel like if I had that same set up I could make it distort more than that.
How high was the gain on the Brownie?
I'd definitely try it with the gain maxed out just to see.

The other pedals ..... the ones that DID distort a lot sounded like ass to me ........ the ones that didn't ... well, they all sounded pretty much the same. Kinda dead sounding .......

But the thing is ...... you would never use a crunch or dirty sound for strumming open ringing chords like that so it's such an opposite sound it makes it difficult to really get a feel for what the pedal's doing.
 
I'm pretty familiar with Ray's music. I think he's just looking for some modest crunch that might tickle into some big overdrive occasionally. A lot of his style is a chimy jangly kind of sound. Maybe that was by choice or just all he could get, I'm not really sure. He'll have to provide some clarification as to what he's really shooting for.
 
The amp isn't really a bass amp. It's a Marshall, which is basically a Bassman circuit. Marshall goosed up a couple of capacitors for more bass and called it a bass amp, much closer to the original Bassman circuit. But it's a Bassman/Marshall. And 100-watts makes it hard to get 'that sound' until you crank it. And that even depends on how the amp is set up. Some had EL34's, most US versions had 6550's, which won't have 'that sound', even cranked.
If you have EL34's biased 'properly' :rolleyes: there's a couple of things you can do. Try removing two EL34's, running the amp as a 50-watter. Set the impedance selector to one setting higher than your cabinet. If it's an old 16-ohm cab, use 16-ohms on the selector. Take the two outside tubes out, and maybe that will give you some overdrive at less than paint peeling volume. It should be about a 3dB reduction in volume.
I don't like them, but try a Hot Plate. And, if volume is really an issue, try a set of Yellow Jacket adapters.
Yellow Jackets by CE Manufacturing, LLC
If worse comes to worse, this just ain't a recording amp. Now you have to find one, which opens up a whole can of worms.
 
The amp isn't really a bass amp. It's a Marshall, which is basically a Bassman circuit. Marshall goosed up a couple of capacitors for more bass and called it a bass amp, much closer to the original Bassman circuit. But it's a Bassman/Marshall. And 100-watts makes it hard to get 'that sound' until you crank it. And that even depends on how the amp is set up. Some had EL34's, most US versions had 6550's, which won't have 'that sound', even cranked.
If you have EL34's biased 'properly' :rolleyes: there's a couple of things you can do. Try removing two EL34's, running the amp as a 50-watter. Set the impedance selector to one setting higher than your cabinet. If it's an old 16-ohm cab, use 16-ohms on the selector. Take the two outside tubes out, and maybe that will give you some overdrive at less than paint peeling volume. It should be about a 3dB reduction in volume.
I don't like them, but try a Hot Plate. And, if volume is really an issue, try a set of Yellow Jacket adapters.
Yellow Jackets by CE Manufacturing, LLC
If worse comes to worse, this just ain't a recording amp. Now you have to find one, which opens up a whole can of worms.

His won't break up though. His last test was with the inputs jumpered and the vol cranked. It got ugly.
 
The Brown sound was my favorite. It really warmed up the guitar.
 
Lots of info gents, ta.
Lt. Bob, you really don't want to hear me attempt lead!
I used some open chords and a couple of 5ths as that's what I use when I play.
As Greg mentioned: I've done the cranked run, the cranked with a pedal in front run and now the modest vol with a pedal to simulate overdrive as the poor big beast just won't be overdriven until things are already very ugly.
I'm after something that gives me a little of that just breaking up charm.
Like a jangly guitar through a valve amp that's just a notch beyond clean.
I'm not after uber distortion just a little dirt.
Next step...seems to be as described by Greg.
Maybe I can put something in the 5 watt range on Santa's list.
I haven't trodden that path previously as even Epi Jr's were beyond $300 in my part of the world.
Thanks anyway. Your perspectives have been very useful.
 
Lt. Bob,
I set the gain according to the guideline of the book. For the Classic Rock bit it was at about 2 O'clock for the Brown sound it's set at 7o'clock with the instruction to crank the amp instead.
The amp was at 10 o'clock for most of the stuff & at 12 when I used the Brown Sound cranked.
I do have to say I really like the pedal - it may not, yet, have achieved the aim but it certainly has some good sounds to it & is VERY flexible, (and much pleasant to the ear than the Behringer GDI21/Vtone box - it's so harsh on that I didn't bother adding to the test).
I'l have another go this coming weekend with the amp & gain set higher.
Thanks for the ongoing help mate!
 
His won't break up though. His last test was with the inputs jumpered and the vol cranked. It got ugly.

Then I'd definitely check the tubes and the bias. That amp should bark. But, maybe the speaker cab has speakers that won't break up nicely. Did you check the Yellow Jackets video where the test is with two tubes down to EL84 and two EL34 tubes completely removed? My guess is you dropped it down to less than 15-watts.
 
The amp has recently had some work done:

It needed two new output tubes.
For some reason one side of the push/output stage had failed (no obvious cause found).
It may have been tube failure.
Either way, the tubes are definitely cooked so need to be replaced (original spec. valves for the amp).
Some repair work on the main circuit board and re-bias of the output stage.
Noise problem in the presence control circuit and replacing the offending parts instantly cured the noise issue.
Checked the output transformer and bias circuit.
All seem to be good.

Prior to the above work the amp didn't distort through a Marshall 4 x 12 or an Eton single 200watt cab.

It can be modded to become a Lead amp with minimal effort and it is an almost non destructive mod.
The amp, as is, is a brilliant bass amp - big, loud & clean. I was just hoping it'd get a little dirty on the rare occasion I wanted it to. Spending $60 to try to get that isn't a tragedy. I now have an very nice pedal.
I wish I hadn't returned the Fender Bassman I was given to babysit for a couple of years in the mid 80s. The owner forgot about it completely & I prodded them about it & returned it to them.
I was def. not into playing guitar in any decent way back then so my sense of fairness prevailed.

I can live with the MkII and am looking into alternatives.
As I said I was just hoping to make the most from the gear I already have.
I do need a bass amp and, the reality is that I have a REALLY good one.
 
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and I don't care how much some folks are saying that that amp isn't any different than the lead amp. I had one of those things and it sounded WAY different than the lead amp. Same issue ...... wouldn't distort.
I traded it off for something else back then.
 
and I don't care how much some folks are saying that that amp isn't any different than the lead amp. I had one of those things and it sounded WAY different than the lead amp. Same issue ...... wouldn't distort.
I traded it off for something else back then.

Right. Just cuz it looks like a 1959 don't mean it's gonna be one.

"The Marshall Bass 50w #1986 and the Marshall Super Bass 100w #1992 appeared after the change to the EL-34 tubes. Related to the #1987 and the #1959 respectively, they were designed for bass players. But many guitarrists also decided to try those and they found out that they could get really interesting tones with them. They were a bit smoother and had a tad less gain than their Lead counter-parts. They can easily be converted into Lead circuits as well. So, if you find one for a good price, grab it"

The Vintage Marshall Guide
 
I went to THE MARSHALL Forum to ask some of those who are Marshalholics for their opinions etc.
the main thoughts were:
a) It may have modded not to distort before I bought it (though the tech says it's not been altered),
b) That I could put a "bright cap" on the vol which would allow it to distort easier &
c) Plug into top left, turn all tone dials to maximum and vol 1 to 10 & it should distort unless something is wrong with the amp.
I'll have a go at C this weekend. Mind you it'll be just a little LOUD at 10 but I'll give it a go.
 

The above link takes you to a very brief demo of the Superbass set as per instructions from the Marshall Forum.
That is:
ALL EQ/Tone knobs set at MAX
Humbucker loaded Guitar plugged into top left input (this was alsoin the MF instructions)
Volume 1 at MAX

This was a very loud set up - I had no choice but to wear ear protection. the neighbouring cats n dogs were not amused by my new look or the volume.

I used an old Guyatone Mosrite copy that has a no name humbucker in the bridge position.
The 1st run through, the same chords as perviously used, is just as described above with just the humbucker selected.
The second run through is with the Brownie Classic in Classic Rock mode.
Thoughts?
 
Yeah you're getting a little breakup but it still doesn't sound like a cranked non master vol Marshall. Honestly, it sounds to me like a cranked solid state amp, and with the pedal it got pretty nasty. Youtube some superbass vids and you'll hear what those amps, when modded, can do. They can sound fantastic. I still think you should mod that thing to act like a vintage 4-holer or just get a different amp.
 
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