getting volume to commercial cd levels?

  • Thread starter Thread starter rockabilly1955
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rockabilly1955

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how is the best way to get your songs to cd quality volume without it being poor quality?? I use Magix Music Studio to mix and master individual wav files that i record to a fostex mr8. Any advice will help regarding volume?? thanks guys
 
I dont know much about Magix Music Studio, but this is what I do know about get ones songs up to cd quality. I use Cakewalk Sonar to track and mix my song. I export it as a stereo wav, which then I use T-racks to master the song. After that I use Wavelab to finish up the song. Even after all that I got my songs to sound louder without clipping, but it still not fully up to pro sound levels. Mastering is what I think is what you are seeking.
 
compress the snot out of it then use a limiter to raise it up to mindnumbing volumes. make sure the wave file looks like a block and also make sure there is a lot of RED. Distortion is sweet!! I heard if you put it in a deep fryer like at fast food restaurants that it will really make it sound commercial



all kidding aside if you are just working on some home project, any compressor and limiter will be fine. don't kill it, don't clip it. take it easy. if it's still not loud enough when you burn it a cd or whatever, just turn up the volume. it doesn't hurt to have to actually be able to turn up you cd player volume past 10 which you don't need to do with commercial albums. whatever whatever whatever. i don't think i even know what i'm talking about anyway. :D
 
And of course, start with a commercial quality mix.

That's something most people seem to forget about - You can't just take any run-of-the-mill "okay" sounding mix and expect it to handle the "abuse" that a really great mix will handle - even with professional mastering.
 
Massive Master said:
And of course, start with a commercial quality mix.

That's something most people seem to forget about - You can't just take any run-of-the-mill "okay" sounding mix and expect it to handle the "abuse" that a really great mix will handle - even with professional mastering.
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Yep, this is a very important point IMHO. In fact I'd like to take it even a bit further, if you don't mind, John.

Something I have just come to realize over the last year or so is that there's a whole lot of folks out there that actually try to use the mastering stage to do much of their "mixing", even if they don't realize that's what their doing. I think this is one of the roots of the - as John so colorfully calles it - "maul the band compression" syndrome in self-mastering.

Almost everybody is familiar with the general idea that one should avoid the "fix in the mix" syndrome when possible. In other words, while it's fine to use heavy processing at will during mixing to create special sounds, don't depend on heavy processing during mixing to fix what's wrong with the tracking. try to get the tracking right in the first place and your mix will come together much better.

The same idea applies to mixing and mastering. Don't depend upon mastering to fix the mix itself. Don't just slap together a mix and then essentially try to re-mix it in mastering. Get the mix right to begin wth, and then let the mastering stage concentrate on the detailing and polishing of the mix, not the re-imagining of it.

G.
 
yvesa said:
Here's an article I found useful in understanding why I was having troubles making things sound pro...

http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/professionalcds.htm

It kind of renumerates what was said.
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That is an en excellent article that gets right to the point:
From that article said:
Mastering is not remixing, nor is it a fix it stage designed to correct what went wrong during tracking or mixing.
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Exactly.

G.
 
I think you're asking a very basic question on how to raise the level in a quality manner. this is not related at all to creating a quality mix. it's about transparent level raising.

here's a method I use to raise the level which I find can deliver excellent sonic results. this is only a guide.

On the stereo buss, I stack up to four compressors in series each doing part of the job. the goal is to have each compressor basically act as a leveller carrying part of the load and to allow the limiter to do very little. if I want 8 db of level increase before the final limiter, then each compressor is adjusted for ~2db of avg gain reduction and two 2b of gain, there abouts. I may set each compressor's ratio, threshold and attach/release slighlty differently but I use the ratio and threshold to get the desired db reduction. I keep the ratio as low as possible, around 1.5:1 to 2:1. the attack/release will control colouring. it just depends on the material. I start with slow attacks and long releases and adjust. again depending on the material. I also try to keep the peak and avg gain reduction somewhat close per compressor. this mainly depends on the attack. avoid pumping.

next is the limiter. I try to use this only to keep tops from clipping and normally I try to keep it from doing very much. most of the work is done in the compressors. again, avoid pumping. if the limiter is really working, start over.

I hoped this helps some.

kp-
 
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Keiffer said:
..... this is not related at all to creating a quality mix and you probably don't need a lecture........
...... it just depends on the material..... .......this mainly depends on the attack.
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It all depends on the mix. That is what the "lecture" was about. If the transients in his mix are consistantly 20db higher than the bulk of the signal, no matter how many compressors you chain together, you will ruin it.

It's not a lecture, it's a point of fact. If it isn't mixed a certain way, you won't be able to get it that loud without destroying it.
 
I said it depends on the material...

I also removed the lecture part... please read what I posted...
 
Farview said:
you will ruin it.
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maybe you need to learn how to use compressors... :rolleyes:

peak transients really carry very little energy comparatively. this can be used to one's advantage.

if you want to judge this technique on one example, go ahead.
 
Seeing as Farview is one of few engineers that consistently turns in projects that need VERY little processing during the mastering phase, I'd submit this:

Not only does he have an incredibly good handle on compression, but he sends in projects that *don't need* three or four compressors in a row to get them up to "commercial" levels.

It's not that the multi-compressor chain won't work - It's just that it's still making up for something that didn't go well during mixing.
 
Keiffer said:
maybe you need to learn how to use compressors... :rolleyes:

peak transients really carry very little energy comparatively. this can be used to one's advantage.

if you want to judge this technique on one example, go ahead.
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Go ahead and try to get a classical guitar solo to maintain -9dbfs rms and still sound like a solo classical guitar.
 
Keiffer said:
if I want 8 db of level increase before the final limiter
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I'm curious as to where you get that number from. I understand that you probably pulled that number out of a hat just as an example, that you may not always necessarily "want" 8dB. What I'm wondering is where or why you come up with any predetermined number at all?

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I'm curious as to where you get that number from. I understand that you probably pulled that number out of a hat just as an example, that you may not always necessarily "want" 8dB. What I'm wondering is where or why you come up with any predetermined number at all?

G.
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please read again... I said "if I want..." it was an example. that requires some specificity.

maybe instead of attacking my method, maybe help rockabilly1955 to raise his level with your experience. sorry if I missed it, but I read very little help before my post that got to the real question. How to.

I was totally clear that "It depends on the material." Enough said.
 
Farview said:
Go ahead and try to get a classical guitar solo to maintain -9dbfs rms and still sound like a solo classical guitar.
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then rockabilly1955's free not to use this technique if it doesn't suit the material. geeeezzzz :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Massive Master said:
It's not that the multi-compressor chain won't work - It's just that it's still making up for something that didn't go well during mixing.
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oh please... it is not... how's raising the level in the final product as you say "making up" for mixing. if that's the case then a lot of MEs produce deficient mixes.

in this case... if half the time was devoted to talking specific technique. that was the question. this is home recording. technique specifics are important.

kp-
 
Keiffer said:
please read again... I said "if I want..." it was an example. that requires some specificity.

maybe instead of attacking my method, maybe help rockabilly1955 to raise his level with your experience.
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Geez, Keif, relax and take a slow breath in the nose and out the mouth. I was asking a question, not attacking you. And I also said that I understood that the number you cited was just an example, that you may not always necessarily want that amount. It is indeed content dependant, you're right.

Allow me to rephrase my question: how do you determine a numeric value for the number of dBs of compression that a mix needs?

If you have a formula, or if not technically a formula, a describable method for calculating that, that would indeed be very helpful in answering the OP's question. In fact, after reading your very descriptive recipe, it actually begs the question of "OK, but how does one know they want 8dB (or whatever, based upon content) of compression, and not 4dB or 6dB or 10dB?"

It's a reasonable, useful, and relevant question, not an attack. :)

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Allow me to rephrase my question: how do you determine a numeric value for the number of dBs of compression that a mix needs?
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Please accept my apology... :)

Depending on the material I generally am trying to maximize within reason and probably (rule of thumb) somewhere around K-14 to K-12 FS. Mixes have to end up somewhere and that's where I work to.
 
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