Getting Started - Did I Get The Right Gear?

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hnia6

hnia6

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I bought an M-Audio Fastrack Pro connected to my HP PC. I also have Yamaha HS80M's with the PC. I have Cubase AI4 that came with my Yamaha MM8. I have a Sterling ST51 mic. I also have a guitar and amp with stomp pedals. I have three related questions:

1. I want to sing live over recorded tracks or just sing live while playing instrucments at home. I also want to play the accoustic guitar through the mic like a PA. I tried it using the interface with the speakers all the way up. The interface was as high as it would go without feedback. Still, it wasn't very loud. Do I need to have the software opened too?

2. Would I be better off getting a mixer and running it through the HS80M's? (I'm looking at the MG82CX 8 Input Stereo Mixer with Digital Effects).

3. If I get that mixer, do I need the M-Audio Fast Track Pro? Which would be better for recording quality of audio and midi?

Please feel free to be candid. I don't want to buy a seperate PA if it's not necessary. What's the best solution?
 
Okay let's go through things.

First off, the Fast Track Pro is fine as an audio interface to feed your mic and your electric guitar into your computer. You don't mention whether your amp lets you feed a line out (i.e. a source with all your effects on it) but since you didn't mention it, I assume you're okay on that.

Your HS80 monitors are fine. Many people forget the need for decent monitors so you're a step ahead on that.

The Sterling microphone wouldn't be my first choice but for getting started, you should be okay.

The problems start when trying to use the above as a PA. The HS80s aren't really designed to be a PA system--they're for sitting beside your audio work station and pointing straight at you while mixing. You mentioned feedback. Feedback happens when the microphone is picking up nearly as much sound from the speakers as it is from the proper source. This means that the ways to minimise feedback are a mix of several things.

-get the microphone closer to the sound source and farther from the speakers. Sound follows the "inverse square law". This means that if you halve the distance to the source, you quadruple the amount of sound you get. Or, if you double the distance from the speakers, you quarter the sound being received from them. And so on.

-the mic has a pickup side and a null side. Change the aiming of the mic and speakers so the mic is pointed away from the speakers and towards the source.

However, the stuff you have was never designed to be a PA so it'll never be as loud or feedback free as the real thing. And no, you'd gain nothing by running it through your software. The biggest problem is the lack of power in your speakers as well as the non-specific dispersion pattern. You just don't have enough "grunt" to be a real PA.

As for the mixer, it would give a bit more flexibility but wouldn't change the fact that you have studio monitor speakers and a large diaphragm condenser mic designed more for recording the PA purposes. If you got the mixer, you'd still need the M Audio sound card to record things since this mixer isn't a computer interface--you CAN get mixers with USB out but this isn't one of them. The mixer/Fast Track combo wouldn't be ideal since the interface is designed for 1 mic input and one instrument/line input...and the mixer will output two line outputs.

It occurs you didn't say if the PA was just for playing with at home or for actual live work. For real live work you'd need a proper PA I'm afraid. For playing and practicing at home, you might get away with it but it would never approach "stage" levels.

Bob
 
Using an interface/monitor set up as a PA system never ends well. I've seen people do it, and they pretty much ruin their monitors. If you don't want to get a PA, you could maybe get some isolation headphones and crank em up.
 
Bob;

I really appreciate the very detailed response. My main purpose for PA functionality is three-fold: 1. To do dry runs "live" over pre-recorded tracks that have almost everything but vocals. The tracks would play as ordinary on the monitors and I guess the PA will be a seperate entity going in tandum live. 2. To use as a quasi amp enviornment for accoustic guitar which I'd play through the mic. 3. The PA would also be used to entertain my two little girls, who I would encourage to sing along to live play.

I don't mind getting a PA at all. If I got a mixer that could double as an interface, would I be better off v. sticking with the Fast-Track Pro? What would be an acceptable mixer to meet or exceed the Fast-Track's quality?

I'll apparently need some kind of preamp and speakers for the PA. Any decent suggestions that are reasonalby priced? I'd like to stay at or under $300 if possible. I understand that may be asking too much?

My amp is a Vox AC15CI. Any guitar recording will be via a mic rather than directly into the interface. My understanding is that the sound will be better or more natural??
 
I always say you should lay prostrate every night and thank whatever God you pray to that you live in a time that you can record at home for so cheap. Even 10 years ago you couldn't do it. Let the analog eggheads spend more time cleaning and aligning their gear, and more money maintaining their tape deck. Power to them. We now live in a day where, if you can handle digital, you can get your song ideas out there for the same price as a weekend bender. With analog, you can either buy a new car or that console. It's not a difficult decision for me.
The point is enjoy what you have, and learn. Make 1,001 mistakes. You aren't paying by the hour. When you get very good at recording, and your songs are very good, then your gear can also 'improve'. But for now, you have enough gear to get your songs out there, and learn as you go. If you have a bass, you can DI into the FTP, and with inserts you can add a compressor. That works well for me, and I get a little fussy sometimes, so it should work for you too. You might (or probably) need a small pre for recording your acoustic. Even a cheap Tube MP would work. You aren't after pristine acoustic tones (I hope), but more interested in getting a half-decent acoustic guitar recorded, and to convey your song to whomever. When you and your songs get 'pro', you can get a 'pro' preamp.
Any mixer is just a passive junction box. You don't need one, unless, like me, you also want to have a lot of mics on your acoustic drums, and then a mono (or stereo) out to the interface. That works well, but if your drums are electronic, or you use samples, then you don't need a mixer.
Even if you have a mixer, you still need the FTP, as it becomes your sound card. Unless you have a killer sound card in your PC, the interface it necessary.
 
So forget about mixers that have USB? Not as good as FTP? Can anyone recommend a decent pre set up? I saw a $200 Harbenger HA60 set up, but more are saying "stay away" from that and the HA120. Anyone have/use either of them? Any feedback?
 
I haven't owned a USB mixer, but I looked over the Alesis MultiMix 8. It's pretty neat, and inexpensive. I suppose that would do acoustic drums nicely as well. Sure, try it. What have you got to lose? I didn't see inserts, but it has digital effects, so that may be a plus.
 
ranjam said:
I haven't owned a USB mixer, but I looked over the Alesis MultiMix 8. It's pretty neat, and inexpensive. I suppose that would do acoustic drums nicely as well. Sure, try it. What have you got to lose? I didn't see inserts, but it has digital effects, so that may be a plus.
Click to expand...

The Multimix is nice, but the early version only sends two stereo tracks to the DAW. Take that into account if it's a limiting factor for you.
 
I was just looking this old topic over and thought I'd share the outcome. The monitors will be used only as designed/intended. I set them up nicely on stands where they point right at me and they sound great. The PA can wait. I'm not expecting to gig anytime soon. I've got pleny on my plate now with learing the Cubase, which is going pretty well. I got a new bass a couple weeks ago. It's a Fender Squier VM Modified (lefty!) I need to set it up. The action's kinda high but it's a real pretty bass! Love it! The FTP is pretty good. My only complaint is that my headphone volume doesn't get really high enough while recording. Sometimes my live play is heard louder than my headphones to the point where I it might get hard to record. I'm using the AKG-K240 set. There's a very small button on the left side of the headphones and I couldn't tell you what it does! I know it doesn't boost volume!

My guitar amp is a Vox AC15. I don't think there's an output to go directly into the FTP or computer (Bob's comment). I plan to mic that anyway. If I get some time this week, I'm going to try playing the bass directly into the FTP (ranjam's comment). I'm looking for a very clean bass sound, so that should work out nicely.

I played with the tube/distortion effect that comes with Cubase. I used it on a track where I was essentially making harmonic feedback with my guitar as an accent. It actually sounds really nice/warm. If anyone has heard of the band Idaho, I love the feedback sound when guitarist Dean Seta played with the band. I'm looking to use a similar sound. Great stuff!

I really appreciate all the detailed feedback here. It's been quite helpful.
 
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