getting into "loops" and stuff

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wes480

wes480

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Ok, I have an idea of what I want to do...but I have no idea what software etc. I need to use to get there.

I want to do something on a couple of songs, to give them more of a "loopy" feel. Use some samples and stuff...I'd like to maybe record my own samples...or, record say, a bass line..

and instead of playing it throughout the song, just play it once, and loop it.

The only way I could do this now would be to copy/paste my tracks over and over...I am sure there is software to make this easier to do - or with drums using real samples or whatever.

Just wanting to get into that "computerized" way of making a song happen....any input would be appreciated.

I am using Nuendo software...and, I understand that I should be able to do some of this with that software...that's one of the reasons I decided to go for it...even though to this point I just use it's basic multitrack ability.

Where would Gigastudio fall into any of this? I have read so much about that software...that I would like to demo it or something. Dunno if it is just used for soft synth sounds, or if you actually arrange stuff in there...thanks

-wes
 
I don't use Nuendo but it's probably similar to Logic. You need to load in the loop and select it. Define that as a certain number of measures. Then Repeat Paste it over however many measures you need it.

That is also a great way to pull a decent part out of a crappy performance for bass lines or guitar riffs.
 
Actually, nuendo is very similair to cubase sx. There are two little arrows on the timeline above the tracks. Take them and stretch them the length of a sample track and push the loop button, by the play button, then play.
 
Or once you have recorded the sample, select it, right click> edit > repeat, and specify the number of times you want to duplicate it.
 
cool...i will be trying all of those ideas later today...

is that really all there is to it? just, record/repeat?

or is there more of a "science" to getting stuff to sound good...hrmmm...

as far as making drum loops out of samples, what software do I need to use for that, nuendo?
 
wes: one cool thing about loops is to get into Recycle and the similars.

These kind of files allows you to record a loop and it separates it in notes, so you can then easily change tempos on the fly. You can also shuffle it, etc... and it will give you more power(here's a link)

These particular format is made by Recycle, and they are called REX files. The guys who do it are Propellerheads, the makers of Reason. In fact, Reason comes with a Rex player.

The same concept is applied in Acid, Ableton Live, etc...

The cool thing about rex files is that there are rex players as vst plugins and other technologies as well, so you can integrate them to your existing platform. Don't know if the others work the same way.

Cheers, Andrés
 
The hardest part about creating loops is getting the length perfect for the tempo. It's really not that hard but there is a bit of math involved. I used to have a really cool chart with samples per BPM but I haven't been doing much of that lately. Anybody know any good resources or know the formulas off hand?
 
I took these formulas from a Korg Triton reference:

Sample Loop & Delay Formulas

(Number of bars * 4 * 60 * sampling rate) / BPM = Samples

Calculates a loop's exact length in samples when you know the BPM and sampling rate. The "4" is the number of beats per bar, so in most cases you can shorten the 4 * 60 to 240.

(Number of bars * 4 * 60)/BPM = Time (in seconds) for one bar

This is a variation on the above formula that yields time instead of samples.

New BPM * 100 / Current BPM = Percent to change

Use the "Percent to change" value to convert a loop from one BPM to another. Cool Edit and Sound Forge are a couple of Windows tools that will do a percent change on a sample without changing the pitch. Drastic changes (more than 10%) will cause your loop to distort.

30000/BPM = Delay time in msec for 16th note delays

Use this formula to calculate perfect 16th note delays based on the BPM. For example, 250 msec is the perfect delay for a 120 BPM song.

Old BPM * 2^(steps change/12) = New BPM

The "^" means raised to the power of. Use this formula to calculate the tempo of a sampled loop when it is played at a lower or higher key on the keyboard.For example, if you originally sample a piece at 120 BPM in the key of F, and want to play the sample in the key of A, you would plug in the following numbers:

120 * 2^(4/12) [a positive four semi-tones from F to A]
 
thanks cordura - hopefully at some point that will make sense to me :)

i guess i am not so much concerend with the formulas for now...becuase I am just going to be playing the stuff live, in the tempo i see fit, and then just looping it over and over..

building everything on top of that.

so...is Nuendo good enough for doing it? I was messing around with it last night...didn't get too far.

Someone else reccomended ACID to me...but that program has always seemed so juvenille, maybe thats a misconception.
 
wes480 said:

so...is Nuendo good enough for doing it? I was messing around with it last night...didn't get too far.

Someone else reccomended ACID to me...but that program has always seemed so juvenille, maybe thats a misconception.
Click to expand...

A very big misconception... I can't remember who or what movie, but someone recently did a major film soundtrack with Acid.
I always thought it was for dj and cut/paste composer types... but now I can see how it is an ingenius piece of work. It makes working with loops so much easier. Give the demo a run. I think it's up to version 4.0 now.

Nuendo is ok for loops if you have to do it in Nuendo. Hell, I'd take Cool Edit Pro 2.0 for loops over Nuendo. And Nuendo is my main program!
 
Thanks for the formulas Cordura. Wes, the reason those are important is if you want create a bunch of audio loops that go together you need to make sure they are all exact lengths for the beats and measures or they wont sync up properly.

A friend of mine is a programmer and we made a cool little program to figure all that out based on BPM, note value and time. We even had it convert delay times for different note values. Unfortunately the bastard deleted it accidentaly before we had it compiled and backed up. It was pretty cool.
 
there's no need to get into complicated formulas. In Protools, for example, you a have a primary counter and a secondary counter. So set the primary counter to Bars and Beats, the secondary to samples. Then select inputing the number of beats of bars you want, and the secondary one will show you the number of equivalent samples that you need. If you don't have 2 counters, then use one and change the unit of measure.

Another important thing is to check that the loop ends in an amplitud value that is coherent with the starting value of itself or the nect loops. If not, you'll probably get nasty pops and clicks.
 
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