getting good drum sound

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bonafyde

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Hello everyone.

Here's the situation,

I'm recording drums for my band's demo.

I am going to record the drums on a roland vs 880 using the direct outs of a mackie vlz pro for mic preamps.

For editing and mixing, the tracks are going to be transfered to my cakewalk setup via SCSI.

I have a few questions:

What are the best condensor mics to use for a wide stereo overhead sound? Also what is the best positioning to use?

What's the best positioning on the kick and snare mics for minimal leakage of other drums?

Are there any direct x or vst noise gates that will get rid of major noise before I start to draw volumes on the kick&snare for isolation?

any suggestions would be greatle appreciated

thanks,

bonafyde
 
My biggest suggestion would be, get the drums to right FIRST. That's a major part of getting a good drum sound. That is probably the only definitive answer you'll get for getting good drum sounds. The question of which mics are best in what configuration is impossible to answer. There are too many variables. Just to name a few.... style of music, proficiency of the drummer, the type of drums, the size of the room, the materials the room is made of, the sound you're going for and so on. You asked for the "best". What's your budget? Many of the opinions you get here will be based on these factors. Tell more about the physical arrangement and the music and you'll get a much more concentrated answer.
Good luck,

RF
 
Hey is the vs 880 an eight track? If you're transfering your tracks to computer the other question would be do you need a scratch track of the other instruments. So I'm going to asume you only got seven tracks to work with.

I've got a mackie sr 24 4 so I'l just tell you how i would do it with that board.

Kick on channel 1 of the board. Compressor Gate inserted. I would asign the kick to group 1 (push the 1-2 button and pan left). at the group section make sure the group isn't asigned to the L-R buss. Far as the compressor gate in a live situation with a rock band I compress the kick at about 2:1 up to 4:1 and gate the piss out of it. But with the gate make sure you pay attention to soft sections that the gate opens when the band is playing soft sections and the drummer may not be playing as hard. For recording I'm thinking of doing what I do for jazz groups. In a jazz setting I set the compressor up as a limiter turning the ratio to infintiy :1 setting. I then turn the threshold up so the limiter acts as a brick wall to prevent clipping. So from there just use the dir out on the sub group to track one on the recorder. Oh yeah far as gating when recording just make sure it opens when the kick is played and stays closed while the other drums are being played. Make sure the gate doesn't have a pumping or breathing sound. That kind of sucks.

Snare hmm. Channel 2 on the board. If the drummer is wild with his/ her dynamics maybe a compressor inserted 2:1 other wise just asign to group 2 and dir out of group 2 to track 2.

Toms assign to subs 3 and 4. use subs 3 and 4 as a stereo buss. Pan the toms as you see fit in that stereo buss. gate toms like kick. Try a 2:1 ratio for compression on the toms. Send dir outs for 3 and 4 to tracks three and four on the recorder.

Hi-Hat on next available channel . use the Channel dir out to track 5. Make sure to check the open hi-hat volume level to make sure it doesn't clip the recorder.

x-y the over heads. dir out the channels to tracks 6 and 7. use track six for the mic that faces the left side of the kit as you face it. right side goes to track 7.

For any live instruments on a scrath track asign them to the left mix of the board and connect the main left out to track 8.

There it is. It's just an approach I'm sure there are many others that will work equally as well. I just think that is the best way to ensure maximum control when mixing the drums with only seven tracks to work with.
 
Good post, and some common 'budget' mic's would be a Shure Beta52, AKG D112, Sennheiser E602 or MD421 on kick. Shure SM81 on hi-hat. Shure SM57, Beta57 on snare. Shure SM57, or Sennheiser MD421 on toms. Matched pairs of Marshall MXL603S, Oktava MC-012, or Rode NT5. Anyway, this should give you an idea of what mic's you could use and what on. Where you place the mic's is important also.


GrooveBassman said:
Hey is the vs 880 an eight track? If you're transfering your tracks to computer the other question would be do you need a scratch track of the other instruments. So I'm going to asume you only got seven tracks to work with.

I've got a mackie sr 24 4 so I'l just tell you how i would do it with that board.

Kick on channel 1 of the board. Compressor Gate inserted. I would asign the kick to group 1 (push the 1-2 button and pan left). at the group section make sure the group isn't asigned to the L-R buss. Far as the compressor gate in a live situation with a rock band I compress the kick at about 2:1 up to 4:1 and gate the piss out of it. But with the gate make sure you pay attention to soft sections that the gate opens when the band is playing soft sections and the drummer may not be playing as hard. For recording I'm thinking of doing what I do for jazz groups. In a jazz setting I set the compressor up as a limiter turning the ratio to infintiy :1 setting. I then turn the threshold up so the limiter acts as a brick wall to prevent clipping. So from there just use the dir out on the sub group to track one on the recorder. Oh yeah far as gating when recording just make sure it opens when the kick is played and stays closed while the other drums are being played. Make sure the gate doesn't have a pumping or breathing sound. That kind of sucks.

Snare hmm. Channel 2 on the board. If the drummer is wild with his/ her dynamics maybe a compressor inserted 2:1 other wise just asign to group 2 and dir out of group 2 to track 2.

Toms assign to subs 3 and 4. use subs 3 and 4 as a stereo buss. Pan the toms as you see fit in that stereo buss. gate toms like kick. Try a 2:1 ratio for compression on the toms. Send dir outs for 3 and 4 to tracks three and four on the recorder.

Hi-Hat on next available channel . use the Channel dir out to track 5. Make sure to check the open hi-hat volume level to make sure it doesn't clip the recorder.

x-y the over heads. dir out the channels to tracks 6 and 7. use track six for the mic that faces the left side of the kit as you face it. right side goes to track 7.

For any live instruments on a scrath track asign them to the left mix of the board and connect the main left out to track 8.

There it is. It's just an approach I'm sure there are many others that will work equally as well. I just think that is the best way to ensure maximum control when mixing the drums with only seven tracks to work with.
Click to expand...
 
get you some mxl 603s for your overheads. there reall cheap (in price) but they sound great! you can get you 2 with cables at 8thstreetmusic.com for $159.00. when you get them, place the right overhead about 2 sticks from the edge of the hi-hat. (the side that is over the snare.) then do the same with your left overhead on you use the ride. i use a beta 52 for my kick. what do you have for your's? a good place to start is right outside the kick, on-axis with the beater. (take the front head off too.) on snare, just put the mic as close a you can get it to the head for a real tight and loud sound. it you want a more open, lite sound, move the mic back a few inces.


zeke
 
i'm renting mics and a mixer for a couple days so price isn't really an issue.

The vs-880 can record up to 4 tracks at once.
Once I transfer the drum tracks to my cakewalk setup, I have unlimited tracks to work with.

For recording, I am only micing:

Roland Track 1. Kick Shure SM57
Roland Track 2. Snare Shure Beta52
Roland Track 3. Overhead Left ??
Roland Track 4. Overhead Right ??

Once in Cakewalk, each track will still be seperated (for automation, eq and effects)

thanks for your help guys.
 
You've got your kick and snare mic's listed backwards.

bonafyde said:
i'm renting mics and a mixer for a couple days so price isn't really an issue.

The vs-880 can record up to 4 tracks at once.
Once I transfer the drum tracks to my cakewalk setup, I have unlimited tracks to work with.

For recording, I am only micing:

Roland Track 1. Kick Shure SM57
Roland Track 2. Snare Shure Beta52
Roland Track 3. Overhead Left ??
Roland Track 4. Overhead Right ??

Once in Cakewalk, each track will still be seperated (for automation, eq and effects)

thanks for your help guys.
Click to expand...
 
DJL is right. I always put the kick before the snare. (because sometimes, you will find yourself boosting the snare track insted of the kick.) But if you are mixing in cakewalk software, then it don't really matter.

zeke
 
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