Getting from a bunch of tracks to a master CD

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Armistice

Armistice

Son of Yoda
Apologies for the newbieness of the question, despite my relative senior citizen status in this place I've never done this part of the process. I have two questions (at this stage). I have a bunch of tracks, they're all mixed. Sitting in Reaper. Individually, I have "mastered" them via limiting etc to get to reasonable volume, and done fade outs/ins where appropriate.

I need to end up with a master CD that can be replicated properly so I can end up with a quality saleable product. How to get to there from here...

Question 1
Do I:
(a) take my "mastered" tracks and assemble them somehow in some software to produce the master CD, adding all the metadata, names, etc.
(b) take anything I've added as "mastering" off the stereo bus for all the tracks, render them individually to stereo WAV files, then line them all up in one long mega track in Reaper, and "remaster" them for volume, fades, song spacing, then render that as a stereo WAV file and use different software to produce the master CD, adding all the metadata, names etc.
(c) Some other process...?


Question 2
What's the software that I'm using to create the master CD? Given that I'll probably only do this once, what should I be getting? I'm assuming I'll have to shell out for something to do it to the required spec.

Thanks in advance...
 
Q1 -- Whatever you feel is the correct route considering the source vs. the destination.

Q2 -- I understand WaveLab Essentials will do what you need... Reaper will also if I'm not mistaken. But keep in mind that although it's not rocket surgery, authoring a compliant disc is a very precise process -- Unless you *know* -- 100% -- that the disc you're writing is compliant, assume that it's not.
 
I use WaveLab Essentials and it will get you there. You can't edit the PQ codes, but you maybe that's not so important. You can pretty much do everything else with it. I use it in conjunction with Ozone Isotope :eek: . I like the limiter and EQ section. I use them globally and use UAD Pultec eq on the individual tracks. The one thing I don't like about WLE is the CD burner drivers. I ALWAYS have problems. I have never been able to burn more than one cd at a time. However, for me, that is not so much a problem because I use Kunaki.com. I'll burn one CD and copy it to their system and that's all I need.

I've also considered CD Architect from Sony, but haven't really given it a try yet.

Mixdown in Reaper to stereo tracks without any master bus plugs. Then use whatever mastering program you decide upon.

Or... send your two-tracks off to a real mastering engineer and don't worry about it.
 
Massive Master said:
Q1 -- Whatever you feel is the correct route considering the source vs. the destination.

Q2 -- I understand WaveLab Essentials will do what you need... Reaper will also if I'm not mistaken. But keep in mind that although it's not rocket surgery, authoring a compliant disc is a very precise process -- Unless you *know* -- 100% -- that the disc you're writing is compliant, assume that it's not.
Click to expand...

Thanks Massive. I guess the follow up question is "Do I need my disc to be red book compliant?" I'm not even sure what that means, even having read the history.

So this is, essentially, a vanity project. Chilli's going to buy a copy (ain't ya?;)) and about three other people probably, but be that as it may, I'm going to get 500 CDs replicated so I have more boxes of CDs to trip over, to go with the other 3 lots... and I'm going to get it up on iTunes just because... it's a "look ma" thing, I guess.

I've read a few threads on the Cockos forum about how to do it in Reaper with the aid of a plug-in called ReaBurn. I'm sure I can work out how to do it with Wave Lab if I have to, but frankly I'm struggling a bit with the terminology and the acronyms... What does "red book compliance" get you in a replicated CD? I'm assuming if it's replicated it's going to play on all CD players.. this is probably another topic I guess. Anyone got any further reading they can link me to? Cheers...
 
Chili said:
I use WaveLab Essentials and it will get you there. You can't edit the PQ codes, but you maybe that's not so important. You can pretty much do everything else with it. I use it in conjunction with Ozone Isotope :eek: . I like the limiter and EQ section. I use them globally and use UAD Pultec eq on the individual tracks. The one thing I don't like about WLE is the CD burner drivers. I ALWAYS have problems. I have never been able to burn more than one cd at a time. However, for me, that is not so much a problem because I use Kunaki.com. I'll burn one CD and copy it to their system and that's all I need.

I've also considered CD Architect from Sony, but haven't really given it a try yet.

Mixdown in Reaper to stereo tracks without any master bus plugs. Then use whatever mastering program you decide upon.

Or... send your two-tracks off to a real mastering engineer and don't worry about it.
Click to expand...

So I've not found anything called Wave Lab Essentials... just Wave Lab Elements. Is that what you're talking about? $99 AUD...

I'm going to do the Kunakai thing anyway for O/S sales, but want to get a "real" CD made here in Australia so I can bore the pants off everyone with it and refuse to talk to anyone at work unless they buy a copy... as you do... :laughings:

If it was just me, I'd send it off to a real mastering person, but "the other guy" is not going to fork out any more $ on this, and is convinced, by the way I've turned his little strummy tunes into bona fide pop rock anthems, that I can do everything... :confused: so unless mastering is waay cheaper O/S than Aus, I guess I'll have to muddle on through. I doubt my core audience is going to know the difference from a sound quality, it's more the technical aspects of getting a master CD that I need to work through... :thumbs up:
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Reaper can produce a replication ready DDP 2.0 file set, with help from a third party plugin.

Click to expand...


OK, thanks boulder.. 40 minutes of instructional video = awesome. I'll have to work out what a DDP 2.0 file set means in the scheme of things though...:facepalm::D I see googling ahead...

Why, why did I have to be a musician? Cross stitch would have been so much an easier hobby.... :confused:
 
Supplementary Q for Chilli (or anyone else...) - I can see that I can download an unrestricted trial version of Wave Lab Elements which will work for 30 days... enough time to learn how to drive it and get my CD done? I guess I'll end up buying it anyway as it will have its uses, and it's pretty cheap, but just wondering...

I guess I'd better get all the damn songs finished first though... :D
 
You could use Reapers CD creation to get your CD all set and sequenced and in a state that you like it. Export out in a Cue file, but not burn it, bring it in to Elements for the final mastering since it has the tools to make it "Redbook" compliant. I have not read the Redbook spec, so have no idea that that is, so if Elements has the components, to be on the safe side, you could go that route for the final.
 
That whole Red Book thing confuses the f*ck out of me. Typically you are suppling WAV, AICC (or FLAC) files to the replicating place (CD Baby, for example), so it doesn't matter, does it?
Kunaki, CreateSpace (free Amazon placement) just require WAV or AICC files, too. I supplied what supposed to be a Red Book compliant disc to CreateSpace for my first CD and as they duplicate (not replicate), it didn't matter - none of the song title/background stuff was included in the files.
 
What does "red book compliance" get you in a replicated CD?
Click to expand...
It means the disc is formatted to play in most players. It means it's an "Audio CD" as opposed to a "Data CD" -- The error correction is wholly different from one to the other (for starters).

Now ask what happens when a disc that's NOT 100% in compliance goes to the replicator and I'll tell you the story of a band who got together in a garage for a whole weekend cracking open CD cases and replacing the discs all because the pause before the first track's start marker wasn't precisely 150 frames...

The upload/create discs sites (CDBaby, etc.) create their own image (probably a DDP, as there's no ISO for CDA except for a few proprietary goofy things) that's still compliant (OrangeBook disc, RedBook compliant).
 
Armistice said:
So I've not found anything called Wave Lab Essentials... just Wave Lab Elements. Is that what you're talking about? $99 AUD...
Click to expand...

Doh. I guess I'm showing my age. Wavelab Elements.

Send your tracks to me. I've got all the same equipment as John at Massive Mastering because I stole them from his website. :p And I'll do it for free.
 
Massive Master said:
It means the disc is formatted to play in most players. It means it's an "Audio CD" as opposed to a "Data CD" -- The error correction is wholly different from one to the other (for starters).

Now ask what happens when a disc that's NOT 100% in compliance goes to the replicator and I'll tell you the story of a band who got together in a garage for a whole weekend cracking open CD cases and replacing the discs all because the pause before the first track's start marker wasn't precisely 150 frames...

The upload/create discs sites (CDBaby, etc.) create their own image (probably a DDP, as there's no ISO for CDA except for a few proprietary goofy things) that's still compliant (OrangeBook disc, RedBook compliant).
Click to expand...

So it is more or less a technical spec so all CD readers can read it, new and old a like?
 
Armistice said:
Supplementary Q for Chilli (or anyone else...) - I can see that I can download an unrestricted trial version of Wave Lab Elements which will work for 30 days... enough time to learn how to drive it and get my CD done? I guess I'll end up buying it anyway as it will have its uses, and it's pretty cheap, but just wondering...

I guess I'd better get all the damn songs finished first though... :D
Click to expand...

I use it mostly to convert to MP3 for downloads here and other places. :D With Cubase, you have to buy the MP3 encoder, which kind of sucks, so instead of purchasing the encoder, I bought WLE many years ago.

You drag each song to the timeline and are able to insert VST plugs on each individual song. You can edit volume envelope for each song, as well as pauses, tails, fade-ins, fade-outs, etc. There is also a global section where you can insert a limiter or other plugs. (This is where I use Ozone for the limiter and dithering)

I'll put all the songs on the timeline in the order I want. Then adjust volumes to get them close. Then I go through each common parts for each song and compare. ie, all the intros, all the 1st verses, 1st choruses, etc. I'll compare soft songs to soft songs and loud songs to loud songs. I'll usually pick one that has both main styles and use that one as a golden song. Or sometimes, I'll use a reference song.

To me, the hardest part is matching songs with different song densities. Barebones songs compared to full on rock songs. They might have the same peak volume, but sometimes they can have completely different perceived volumes. I try to get the lead vocals to sound the same volume. RMS metering helps, but it's only half the story; your ears are the other half. (John should get a laugh out of that. :) ) I am curious how a real mastering engineer handles songs that are completely different like that.
 
So it is more or less a technical spec so all CD readers can read it, new and old a like?
Click to expand...
It's just the technical spec for an audio CD (CDA). Every player should be able to read it, sure. There are plenty of players that recognize no other spec -- That's one of the big problems.
 
DM60 said:
You could use Reapers CD creation to get your CD all set and sequenced and in a state that you like it. Export out in a Cue file, but not burn it, bring it in to Elements for the final mastering since it has the tools to make it "Redbook" compliant. I have not read the Redbook spec, so have no idea that that is, so if Elements has the components, to be on the safe side, you could go that route for the final.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's sort of where I'm headed, I think...
 
Chili said:
Doh. I guess I'm showing my age. Wavelab Elements.

Send your tracks to me. I've got all the same equipment as John at Massive Mastering because I stole them from his website. :p And I'll do it for free.
Click to expand...

Hey thanks Chili dude but I sort of actually want to work through the process myself, as part of my ongoing edumacation... and if it costs $99, then I can bill the other guy for half for a start, and in the scheme of the untold thousands spent over the decades.... no big deal at all...

I've discovered I have 2 songs that need some re-recording (the other guy's finger style playing just ain't up to scratch in one song so I'm going to quietly replace it - not sure if I'll tell him or not :D) and given it's Christmas Eve and I have to disassemble the "studio" so we can have Christmas lunch on the dining table, I'll sort of get there early in the new year... I might PM you if I have any issues with Elements though.. :D
 
mjbphotos said:
That whole Red Book thing confuses the f*ck out of me. Typically you are suppling WAV, AICC (or FLAC) files to the replicating place (CD Baby, for example), so it doesn't matter, does it?
Kunaki, CreateSpace (free Amazon placement) just require WAV or AICC files, too. I supplied what supposed to be a Red Book compliant disc to CreateSpace for my first CD and as they duplicate (not replicate), it didn't matter - none of the song title/background stuff was included in the files.
Click to expand...

I understand what the spec is and why it's important... just working out how to get there... read up on the whole red book, orange book, yellow book stuff a while back..;)
 
Chili said:
To me, the hardest part is matching songs with different song densities. Barebones songs compared to full on rock songs. They might have the same peak volume, but sometimes they can have completely different perceived volumes. I try to get the lead vocals to sound the same volume. RMS metering helps, but it's only half the story; your ears are the other half. (John should get a laugh out of that. :) ) I am curious how a real mastering engineer handles songs that are completely different like that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is the bit that's going to be interesting... there's such a diversity of styles and instrumentation on this beast...
 
Armistice said:
I'll have to work out what a DDP 2.0 file set means in the scheme of things though.
Click to expand...

A DDP 2.0 file set is a set of files with the data needed for replicating a CD with all sorts of text options (title, genre, ISRC, UPC etc.) that you can upload to a replication house. DDP 2.0 files sets have built in error detection (checksum), so when you send it via internet you can be pretty sure it is received intact. If there's an error on a CD-R master the factory might not know.
 
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