Getting a nice 'wide' guitar sound

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N8theGr8

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i think ive asked this question before, but i still haven't found a solution to it. I'm recording some Dave Matthews covers with my band, and i can't get the guitar to sound real wide and spread out to the extreme left and right of headphones, speakers etc. I'm using n-track, and ive tried cloning the track so i would have 2 monos, pan one left one right. no big difference there. but when i listen to the new DMB cd, in songs like 'When the World Ends' and 'The Space Between', the guitar just sounds much wider than what our recording sounds like. what can I do?
 
Double track the guitars and pan them. Record 2 or more guitars playing the same part, and tiny imperfections between takes adds some depth.
 
Wally is totally right. You have to actually play the track twice, can't just "clone" it. Cloning it and then panning hard left and right will sound the same as if its mono. Its still the same thing coming out of both speakers. When you double track it, it give you a sense of depth because of the little nuances in your playing.

Jake
 
or clone it, pan one hard left dry, and one hard right with some delay and reverb....also EQ the 2 tracks differently to accentuate different areas, maybe the high end on one and the midrange on the other......
 
That still won't sound anywhere near as "wode" as if you actually played it twice.

Jake
 
What I would do is either record the guitar with 2 or 3 different mics or just do overdubes, with different EQ ,delay-chorus-reverb settings.
 
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Jake, I agree with you that if done right, cutting 2 different takes sounds much better than cloning....if done poorly, it sounds much worse.....what would be even better would be a very similiar part but not an exact copy, making slight changes here and there.....
 
Ok, call me crazy but can cloning a track cause phase issues?.....
 
Part of the "size" of a stereo field or "wideness" has to do with things getting a little out of phase sometimes. It is desirable at times. Try MS mic-ing also, it sounds pretty decent.
 
the guitar sound im getting just doesnt really sound 'big,' it sounds kind of blunt and not spread out through the speakers. What I'm looking for is something like Everlong by Foo Fighters, or Space Between by Dave Matthews. you can just picture the different instruments layed out, and dave's guitar is way left and way right.
 
Try playing the track twice, panning them hard left and right and adding a big reverb (to taste). Try layering in an aocustic, one hard left, one hard right, stuff like that "fills out" your sound, if you do it right.

Jake
 
Reverb, delay, and chorus will give you more depth to the sound. Experimentaion is the key. Haveing 4 tracks for guitars is a good idea.
 
Keep in mind that Foo fighter stuff is tracked with Mesa Rectifiers, which generally sit in a mix just right on thier own, and sound great to boot. A truly good sound is first. The rest should be fairly easy. Check your sound and where you are mic-ing, dont get too on the voice coil or it'll sound too thin and trebly. If you;re using a Gorilla amp, you arent gonna get the sound you are looking for, most likely. Whats your setup? Lots of big name bands are using the rectifiers for thier big dirty sound now, its kind of a natural when you are tracking and trying to mix with it, especially on a hard left/hard right tracking, sounds very big. The clean sounds leave a little something to be desired sometimes though. Might try separate amps for each.
 
another litlle trick you can use is to mult the original signal from an aux send or direct out to a delay unit set it at 25 to 30 milliseconds 100% wet turn off the repeats and such so that it is only delayed nothin else. if you have pitch controll in the same chain add or detract about 5 cents turn it full wet,take that signal run it into a channel input pan it full right and the original full left and it will recreate double tracking without having to use another track.
 
thanks guys, whats a mesa rectifier? also, my guitarist likes the sound he gets from his huge amp, 4 speakers. but i think it kinda sucks on the recording...other options are a fender tube amp 2 speakers that my dad has, and another fender w/ one speaker. what about that milli-second thing? # of tracks aren't a problem cause im working in n-track. i use a small 4-xlr input behringer mixer, should i be messing with any of the eq, low cut 75hz etc? right now i just leave it. thanks for the help!
btw, im having trouble micing my drumset. 2SM57's only (i know, not so great, my SM57's + 2 radioshack mics idea sucked) i've got them at XY above and a little behind my head, not quite at 90 degrees..more like 45. too much hihat and too little snare, if i move the mic facing the left a little more towards the snare, the angle is too small = very little stereo effect.
 
I really don't suggest doing the delays. It's SO much easier to just doubletrack it, and have it sound RIGHT. Using a delay is a completely different effect. The sound you are looking for is double tracked, not using a delay. As for the Mesa Rectifier, its a big powerful, beautiful tube amp that costs a shitload of money. What kind of amp is the 4 speaker one? More spekaers doesnt mean better, the Fender 2 speaker tube amp will probably (i said PROBABLY) give a better clean tone, thats what Fenders are known for.

As for the drums:

Honestly you arent gonna get far with 2 57's, but I suggest putting one on the kick, one on the snare (or as an overhead) and using those radio shack mics as overheads. Kick snare and hats are the most important parts of the kit, the combo of mcing the kick and snare covers you on that, so you should be ok. The crashes and ride should bleed a bit into the snare mic, toms might be more of an issue, but what do you expect when you are only using 2 mics? Can't be perfect, if it could people wouldn't use more.

Jake
 
i tried using RS mics as overheads before, HORRIBLE. im getting a better sound w/ the 2 SM57 overheads right now than i did w/ RS's. the snare and kick are awesome, but everything else sounds like its a mile away. not that nice "close" sound. with the 57's, i get that, even though snare and kick are a little weak.
 
To create the sort of stereo field you’re trying to achieve, you need two distinct sounds. Whether you’re multing, double tracking, etc, simply depends on exactly how you want the sound spread out into that physical space.

You can mult the guitars, but you would have to effect one or both channels separately to notice the separation. For instance, you could compress and eq each separately. A better idea might be to record the guitar onto two tracks in the first place. Try putting one of those 57’s around the 12th fret and maybe put the other by the bridge. This will give a better perception of the natural sound of the guitar (dimension-wise).

BTW, you won’t run into any phase problems multing a track. Just make sure one wave is not leading the other. IOW make sure that both start at the exact same moment.

Listen to one speaker at a time and try and determine the sound coming from each side on the track you are attempting to mimic. You’ll probably learn a lot in the process.

Try panning 2 signals left and right BUT send the effects on the right send to the left side of the mix and vice versa. This works well for a variety of effects. Another favorite of mine is to record an acoustic, then double track the same part… with a capo at some interval. The resulting sound is somewhat like a 12 string guitar with the high strings on one side and the low strings on the other. Use your imagination. Oh… and don’t try to hard pan everything. Often you’ll only have to get a little off center to create a spacious effect.

Good luck!

Brad Gallagher
http://www.just-for-musicians.com
 
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