Getting a good kit sound with limited mics

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xbxrxixtx

New member
I'm going to be tracking for some friends and I'm limited on mics for recording the kit. I have a Motu 896HD so inputs are not an issue. The mics I have are; SM57, AT2020, a cheap behringer dynamic (it was really cheap, don't judge me) that I don't recall the model of, and a homemade subkick (10" alpine wired in reverse). Any suggestions on a set-up? Ideally I'd like a whole closet full of mics and just throw a mic on everything. With limited funds that's not an option. I also may have a lead on borrowing a kit mic set, so it all may be for nothing (other than good debate).

My thought was to maybe put the 57 on the snare, and the cheap dynamic somewhere around the toms and then use the AT2020 a few feet back or above to capture the whole kit, leaving me with the subkick right on the outside of the kick (possibly moving it back if needed). My logic is that the 57 on the snare will get the snare and hat, then the dynamic on the toms would get the toms and hopefully punch of the kick. Leaving the 2020 to get the overall tone of the kit and the room with the cymbals. I think if I was doing it today that's where I would start and then experiment from there based on the results.

I'm not sure about where we'll be recording. I think it may end up in a living room, but may also use a bedroom or garage. I'm also not sure about the size of the kit. I'm sure its your average small kit not a huge 80s hair metal kit or anything.

Any tips tricks or suggestions?
 
Sounds like a good start but I might use the AT2020 as an overhead instead of a room mic. Having a solid overhead sound is a lot more important than getting extra room in my opinion, especially since the room you'll be in probably won't be ideal. I'm not sure how useful the dynamic will be on the toms. I might rather leave the toms to the overhead and use the dynamic somewhere else -- like maybe in front of the kick as a support to the subkick, in the room somewhere, or on the underside of the snare. Of course, it's your choice and you'll really have to just assess the situation when you get there and see where you could use an extra mic. Who knows, the dynamic mic might end up being really useful on the toms. Good luck to you!
 
Sounds like you got a plan. I'd put 'em up and track something to see how it sounds. If it ain't to your liking, trash it and try something different.
 
Thanks for the replies. I think its just going to be a bunch of experimenting and seeing what happens. If it sounds good, it IS good.
 
why not try the 57 in the kick, the AT2020 as an overhead and the beri mic on the snare? it may sound odd, but for years engineers did a similar thing; 1 or 2 overheads and a kick mic. the overhead will pick up A LOT of the overall kit and, if positioned carefully, you can get a great snare sound and level and you'd be surprised how much toms you'll get in the overhead. having the 57 in the kick will give you a lot more useable frequencies over the sub kick which is, although is great for proper low end, won't cut through in a mix on it's own. if you put the beri on the snare then if the overhead doesn't pickup enough snare then the beri can be mixed in to help it punch through.

So, my suggestion;

57 in the kick, near the outside skin (not the one the beater hits) off centre. if you put it too far in it get very VERY clicky
AT2020 over the centre of the kit, pointed either at the snare or wherever sounds best
beri mic close mic on the snare
 
I'm not sure how well I'd be able to get a mic in the kick. Along with only having three mics I only have one mic stand (without a boom). It's going to be tough all around. I may be able to ghetto rig something up that can get inside. I have some pvc pipe type things I may be able to rest the mic in (enough in to keep from falling out, enough out to keep a good signal). I've also been debating about how to rig up the 2020 above the drummer. A lot is going to come down to finding out where they are trying to record and what resources I can scavange to mcgyver something up.

The subkick is pretty much just to experiment with on this project. I don't think it will fit with the sound they are trying to get. I built it a few months ago and I'm finally going to have a chance to use it even though it will be limited at best. At least I'll have that opportunity to see how it works in action. I know its not going to give me the attack I need by itself I just love the kick when you feel it in your chest.

How far would you suggest putting the overhead up above the drummer? A foot or so over their head? With the beri being extra (assuming the snare sounds well from above) do you think the beri would serve better below the snare? Do you think that would help capture more attack from the beater on the kick also keeping a good snare sound? I haven't messed around much with micing the bottom of a snare. How does it effect the overall sound of the snare in general?
 
right, if you've only got one mic stand then don't worry too much about proper mic positioning in the kick. i don't wanna say "just throw a mic in there" but what i've done in the past is "place" it on the dampening in the kick drum and aim it kinda where i want it. if there's no dampening in the kick drum (and i'd be surprised) then grab a pillow or rolled up blanket it, put it in the kick and place the mic on it aiming it at the front skin. if it sounds too dead or dull, point the mic more at the beater. if it's too clicky pull the mic back a bit or aim it away from the beater. get it to sound as good as possible but bare in mind it may not sound great on it's own but some subtle EQ and compression will help create a "phat" or "warm" kick sound, depending on what the track needs.

Overhead positioning without a boom may be difficult put not impossible and will just require experimenting. i'd suggesting starting with the stand in front of the kick drum, raised up about a foot above the highest cymbal, pointing at the snare drum and then just listen to it. if it needs less snare, aim it more at the drummer, if it needs more toms in general then bung the stand next to the drummer's shoulder and aim it down between the snare and hi tom. if the kit sounds too "choked" raise the mic up, if it's too "washy" or "distant" lower the mic a bit (just bare in mind that the lower the mic, the less of the whole kit you'll get)

the beri mic on the snare will be the main one to really experiment with. i quite like mic'ing the bottom of the snare as you get a very sharp, snappy sound (a bit like a marching snare sound) which you can blend it with the overhead or a snare top mic, but it doesn't have the same kind of attack as the top of the snare as it's the top skin the drummer is hitting and so it's the top skin that will have more attack element. if you do mic under the snare you may need to phase invert this mic other wise it may be out of phase with the overhead. if you're not sure if it's in or out of phase, listen to the overhead and mic bottom together at the same volume and then phase invert the snare bottom. if the snare suddenly jumps out then the mic bottom is out of phase so leave the phase invert on. if the snare sound suddenly disappears/sounds really really thin then the mic was already in phase so leave the phase invert off. if you haven't got phase invert options on your desk/interface then record a bit into your DAW and use this phase invert tool in your DAW to listen. i wouldn't use the under the snare mic for trying to get some kick sound as well as it creates even more phase issues with the kick mic as well.

i'd be tempted to to stick the snare mic on top of the snare as a kinda safety net. the kit may great recorded with the overhead and kick mic on it's own, but once you bung it the other tracks (bass, guitars, vocals, whatever else) you may find the the snare sound from the overhead gets swallowed up and so having a close mic on top of the snare as well would mean you could reinforce the snare sound in the mic. it's also a safety net for drummers who may not be consistent. a great drummer will be able to control their hits so all hard hits will be the same (or close to) in volume and all quiet hits will be the same, but more often then not regular drummers may be all over the shop. having a snare mic on the top of the snare in cases where the drummer is inconsistent would give you the opportunity to compress the close mic'd snare sound to balance it out, or EQ it to help is cut through.

The sub kick may work quite nicely in thickening up the sound of the 57 in the kick quite nicely.

with the PVC pipe and some gaffe tape you may be able to create a "mic stand" for the snare mic
 
I sort of hate to say this, but I think you should go ahead and use the subkick on the kick and then plan on using the kick track as a trigger track for a sample in your DAW. I doubt you're going to get a great kick sound with the mics you have (and the limited amount of mic stands) and I have a feeling you'd end up sampling the kick to some extend anyway, no matter how you rigged it up in the studio. I'd spend most of your time and resources capturing a great overhead sound and snare sound, as those seem like more realisticly achievable goals for this session.
 
guitarplayr82 said:
... I think you should go ahead and use the subkick on the kick and then plan on using the kick track as a trigger track for a sample in your DAW.
Click to expand...

I kinda agree and disagree. chances are you may want to use some samples to replace the kick, but you can easily get a great kick sound with what you've got. i'd always say try and get the best sound at source and if it doesn't work in the mix then look at drum replacements with samples.

Saying that, it also depends very heavily on a decent drummer on a decent kit in a decent room. no matter how many mics or how great you gear, if those three things aren't there then it's always gonna be a sub par drum take. A great room is difficult but can be achieved with some DIY dampening and reflective surfaces (drums sound best in a bigger room than in a completely dead space). Also, if you can get the drummer to have new (or at least newish) skins on their kit and make sure they're well tuned then you stand a much better chance at getting a great drum sound, even with only very limited mic's.
 
I would compromise between sampling and mixing first. Sample your beater with the 57 to get some click, then trigger that off the sub kick. I might try using the beri as a room mic but that really depends on the sound your going for.
 
Thank you all for the ideas. I'm going to do everything possible to avoid copping out with samples. It's not really my style, but if the track needs it I'll have to do what needs to be done.
 
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