gear advice

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vrmarlar

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I am getting ready to purchase a 4-track and just wanted a little advice. The recording will be mainly for personal projects with guitar (mostly acoustic), bass, banjo, mandolin, and such. I've looked into the Tascam's and was wondering if the 414 is all I need or if it is worth it to go ahead and invest and get a 424 or 464. I've used little Yamaha before and liked it but it seems that Tascam has a good rep. Also, how much should I spend. I don't mind buying used, I just want to know what I need to beware of and what I need to ask the seller before making a purchase.

In addition, I just purchased a nice new fully loaded computer and was wondering what all it can be capable of doing as far as recording goes. Is there software that you can use to completely eliminate the need for a 4-track? Or does any musician serious about recording need to own one? I know that computers have come a long way and was just wondering if they were capable of being used as a small home recording studio by themselves.

Thanks,

Rich
 
Rich, welcome to the "boards".
The Tascam 414 (or MKII) is a good cassette multi-track, however,
it only has stereo outs which can be very limiting.
(it was my first one BTW)
If you get a portastudio type multitrack that has 4 or more direct
outs, it can be incorporated into a more sophisticated system later on as your recording needs evolve.
For just a little more $$, you could get a minidisc multitrack unit
like the Tascam 564, Sony MDM-X4 (or MKII), Yamaha MD-4,
and Yamaha MD4S. Many times they can be bought used on e-bay
with extra DATA minidiscs included as part of the sale.
The DATA minidiscs were designed to be used a million times
of recording and erasing with no sound degradation.
They have objectively superior sound compared to cassette,
yet are also very simple to use and fun with excellent sound quality. (from a home or project demo prespective)

Another relatively easy format are the 8 track hard drive multitracks, like the Fostex D series (D80, D90, etc.)
The D90 (on up) is a good choice since it also comes with a
remote since any computer has fan noise, although the Fostex
is a simplified version of a PC or a Mac recorder.
They also have multiple direct outs.
A common match for the mixer would be either a Mackie VLZ series (nice), or a Soundcraft M series (a notch up in quality).

There are many software options available, but typically they
involve a more detailed learning curve, and you have to be
careful what microphones you use due to computer fan noise.
(There are acoustic solutions though)
Mixing down to a computer can be a good way to get familiar
with software programs, and to burn CD's.

Currently I play around with cassette, minidisc, hard drive,
and computer (just starting) recording.
Personally, I'd just be using my laptop to record others,
and prefer the other formats when self-recording.

Before buying on e-bay, be sure to check the seller's feedback record, and e-bay's protection polices.

Chris
 
Thanks for the reply. Minidisc is something new to me, but I'm definitely going to look into. Sounds like it would definitely be worth the extra cash if I can find a good deal. Is there any reason for preferring any one of these units over the others of its kind? Also, what are the disadvantages, if any, of using minidisc over cassette?

Any information is appreciated. I am in a hurry to purchase a recorder, but I want to learn as much as I can about what is out there and what is best for me before making my purchase. I'm very bad about jumping into things when I get excited, so I don't want to end up with something I'm disappointed with. I'm sure you know exactly where I'm coming from. Plus, I'm easily persuaded by people who know more than I do and seem to take their word as gold. For example, I'm already convinced that I need a minidisc over cassette. Anyway, long story short, I want to spend as little as possible (under $500) on something that will meet my needs.

Rich
 
Rich, there are professional reviews of each of the 3 main types,
(Tascam 564, Sony MDM-X4, and Yamaha MD series- MD4, MD4S, MD8)
at www.sospubs.co.uk/search
For example, just enter "Tascam 564" to read a review of that one, etc.
Reading those first will give you a much better idea of how they are
a bit different from one another.
There is also extensive information at www.minidisc.org on each of these
recorders.
My suggestion is to read all this information first, before committing to a
purchase.

Objectively speaking, minidisc is miles ahead of cassette, however,
even cassette has a cool analog sound to it. It can be used as a
special effect, like when The Rolling Stones used a Phillips Mono (!)
cassette recorder to record the guitar riff in "Street Fighting Man",
or for the lead vocal in The Small Faces song "The Universal"-complete
with barking dog noises, since it was recorded at Steve Marriott's
front porch at home! (was a top 20 hit in the UK BTW)
Be aware that if you purchase the DATA minidiscs new, they run around
$15 each new. BUT they are re-usable.

FWIW, if my budget was $500, $180 of that money would go towards the
Studio Projects VTB-1 mic pre. At www.bpmmusic.com, they were offering
free 2 day shipping. A good pre makes a world of difference with ANY
recorder. Then use the other $320 to get the minidisc unit.

Let us know how things go!

Chris
 
Chris, thanks for keeping up with me.
I'm coming along, but I have got so much to learn. Let me say that my "current" intentions are only to put together a small scale home studio for mainly personal use. So I just want the basics. By basics, I don't mean junky equipment. I want nice equipment that will suit my needs and hopefully not need upgrading (at least for a long time). So, here's where I am now.

1)I'm leaning towards a minidisc recorder (maybe the Tascam 564). Is this recommended for a beginner? I've had experience with cassette recorders and catch on pretty quick.

2)The Studio Projects VTB-1 mic preamp. I read reviews on it and it seems suitable for my needs and then some.

3)A good mic. I want to start with a simple mic. Is there such thing as a multi-purpose mic? Or am I going to find it necessary to get a different mic for every purpose (vocals, miking acoustic instruments, miking amps) I understand why with experience this is a must, but for a beginner will I have any complaints? I want to gradually build my mic collection after I've had time to play around.

Anyway, what more do I need to be able to put together some good home recordings? And how does my computer come into the mix?

I'm sorry for all the questions, but the tutorials I've read on here seem a bit outdated, especially when it comes to computers. I'm not up for reading an entire book, I'm just looking for some sound advice.

Thanks,

Rich
 
Hi there vrmarlar

The real experts on mics hang out in the microphone forum, but I'm pretty confident they'd say a Shure SM58, or 57 to start with. (I think they're virtually identical, with the 58 having a shield more designed for vocals).

They are dynamic mics (in other words they work like a speaker in reverse, with air pressure moving a diaphragm which moves the magnet) and hence are not used for really serious studio vocal work, but they are great all rounders and every studio has them. No matter how big your collection you'll always have a use - for example they are one of the mics of choice for micing amps right up to professional level.

They're very simple and virtually unbreakable and you can buy used ones with confidence, which will help the budget.

Have fun

Garry
 
Wrote a detailed response, then got disconnected!
So here's the brief version.

The Shure SM57 has a relatively cleaner sound than the SM58.
Whatever microphone(s) you choose, get a vocal pop screen-
not foam.
A good plan would be to get a dynamic microphone, like the SM57,
and a condenser microphone to keep various options open.

FWIW, if I was starting from scratch, the first two microphones bought
would be the '57, and one of the Studio Projects condensers like the
B3 (multi-pattern). That way you could learn and apply all the basic
polar response patterns. Another benefit to buying the Studio Projects
stuff is that Alan Hyatt (owner) hangs out in the Microphone Forum and
is very cool about asking him application questions.

Along with good microphones, and a good mic pre, expect to budget for
an outboard reverb unit like a Roland, Yamaha, or Lexicon, and a
compressor like the Fmr. Audio RNC.

The Tascam 564 is a nice unit (I have one), however, it's still best to review
each type covered in the Sound On Sound link I posted for you.

Chris
 
They are dynamic mics (in other words they work like a speaker in reverse, with air pressure moving a diaphragm which moves the magnet) and hence are not used for really serious studio vocal work...
Click to expand...

You'd be surprised at what high-end dynamic mics are used for serious vocal work in a pro studio. Not everyone uses a condensor 100% of the time on all vocals.
 
You ARE aware that the MidiDisk format uses a "lossy" data compression scheme, even at the highest quality setting?

If you're not worried about portability, and can stand to spend some time with a steeper learning curve, using the computer as a base system will get you a lot more for your money... Steve
 
Sennheiser makes an excellent point-which was in my (original) last post
before I was disconnected (!) regarding singers and microphone types.
There has been a tendency, due to the excitement over good sounding
condensers to finally become very affordable, for home recordists to
overlook the many fine sounding dynamic microphones for vocals.

The difference between non-compressed and data compressed digital
is actually quite subtle. You can test this by recording a CD into a minidisc
recorder, then playing it back. The frequency response will be miles ahead
of cassette, and it's much easier to detect any sound quality difference
in the minidsc when recording classical music rather than popular.
The sound quality of the lowest data compression scheme, ATRAC 2,
is comparable to a 4 track 1/2" reel to reel's sound quality running at
7 1/2" per second. (I have a 4 track reel to reel)
The minidisc motor is also quieter than a computer cooling fan is.
You also don't need to "back up" your work like you do with a computer.
Another issue can be the lack of multiple direct outs if you want anything
to be mixed and mastered at a professional studio elsewhere.
Not meant to say it's better than computer recording, just different.

Also someone like Bob Olhsson (famous engineer), would make better
recordings on a 4 track cassette portastudio than most anyone on a top
Pro Tools setup! So don't sweat the recording format too much.
More a matter of talent and ears, rather than gear.

Chris
 
minidisc

Hey vrmarlar(Rich),
Newb here too!!
I got a Sony MDM-X4 that I'm not using at the moment. Used for 6-8months, w/ manual, box and extra discs I think about 6 of them. for $300 if you are interested.
They are great for getting demos of your band or what have you.
I did a recording of a band in a rehearsal room (cramped) with 4 mics--full band , drums. bass. 2 gtrs voals, perc. Turned out great, almost better than when they went into a studio. At least it will capture the vibe better.
PM me if you are interested.

T
 
Thanks for all the advice, everyone.

I'm planning on spending some time over the weekend to read a few details and learn a little more before I decide exactly what it is that I need. I have a few friends with professional studios that I hope I can get together with too and maybe even get to try some stuff firsthand.

What I'm still a little fuzzy on is using the computer for recording. I know that you need a good soundcard. But is there software that eliminates the need for an actual mulittrack recorder? I've read something about needing multiple inputs for multiple tracks, or I think I read that you can just plug a mixer directly into the soundcard. This seems like it might be kinda cost effecient for a beginner.... at least something to try out before investing in actual recording equipment. Anyone know of any good tutorials on this kind of stuff?

Tonio, your offer sounds nice, but like I said, I'm still in the learning stages right now and don't want to jump into a purchase no matter how tempting it sounds. I'll get back to you soon on that. Thanks for putting it on the table though.

Rich
 
I’m no expert, but I think I can help a little here as I have done some research. If you need multiple inputs you will probably need to buy a different sound card than came with your computer. M-Audio makes some good stuff like the Delta 44, Delta 66 or Delta 1010 depending on how much money you want to spend. Each higher number gives you more inputs & outputs. Check here for more info http://www.m-audio.net/products/m-audio/delta.php . These are high quality sound cards and should give you good results. There are also other brands of soundcards that are good too. Others here could point you in other directions.

I personally record through my SB Live Value card two tracks at a time maximum. It works for me and I can get decent sound, but I will be upgrading to one of the Delta Series above in the near future.

You will also need a software package. Cakewalk makes a bunch of them with Sonar being their best right now. I have Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 (which Sonar replaced) and it works well for me. There are many other software packages including some very inexpensive ones if you do some research. I’m sure some other more experienced members here could point you in a few other directions.

I think a computer based DAW is great. I believe (correct me if I’m wrong) you can get more bang for your buck that way. Problem is, it isn’t as portable, the kids want to use the computer… ;)

Hope this little bit of info helps some :)
 
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