Fostex's HD 1624,2424

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mstudio1224@aol.com

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In the age of ALESIS HD24, MACKIE MDR24/96, TASCAM MX2424

has anyone used the FOSTEX 16/24 or 2424, all I really care about is the CUT/PASTE feature and the DRIVES, mostly the drives

if anyone knows: are the drives compatible to other drives using IDE, can they be found if needed to buy extra or do they use any IDE drives ?

I ask cause I have two VM200 and figure it would be cool to have that as a HD recorder and it's the same brand name (shouldnt be any problems) ya know.

If not I'll just wait for the HD24 Alesis
 
Cut and paste works just fine on my D1624. Editing on the machine is very doable, and with the digital scrub feature it is very familiar to an old analog guy like me- very similar to scrubbing tape back and forth, and marking it with a grease pencil to chop with a blade...

The drives are regular beaterbox IDE drives: I've used several that I picked up for around $100 through at Disk Drive Depot (Sunnyvale) when I was in California a while back. The drive carriers are Fostex-specific (and they want too much money for them), but the entire drive mount can easily be swapped out for a Kanguru or other common flavor.

I don't regret getting my 1624, even though the 2424 came out right afterwards, and the HD24 looks set to go now. If getting up and running _now_ is important, the Fostex is ready and waiting...
 
So would you say...

Skippy -- So the drives are ((SPECIFICALLY)) for FOSTEX,
I guess my thing is are they ((SHELVED)) I mean are they at the stores to purchase: SAM ASH, MUSICIAN FRIEND, GUITAR CENTER

ya know --- If that's the case I would get it. Plus having the mixer and HD compatible is a plus is MY eyes, ((its good for me))

So what you think I should get: D1624 or wait for HD24

I do want something right now, but it does make sense to wait, cause I have an ADAT set up & BRC (3)LX20's but I know the FOSTEX is MMC/MTC compatible via 1/4 cable

I just dont know man -- I dont care bout all that other stuff, just CUT & PASTE, I do a lot of vocals so stacking them in one spot, then PASTING to the other choruses is a plus for me.
 
The drives are _not_ specific to the Fostex: they are just beaterbox IDE drives. You can get them from essentially any computer store: they are just random computer hardware. The drive _carriers_ (the plastic unit that drive drive lives in that slips into the Fostex) does appear to be a Fostex-specific part, but you don't really need more than one- you can just swap drives in and out of your single carrier, and be happy. I bought some spare carriers to go with the new drives I bought, so that I could change projects by just pulling one out and puting another in: very important to me, since I always have several completely independent projects in the room at a time.

I like my unit: it has been stone reliable. Who knows what the HD24s will be like when the finally come out? If I had it to do again today, I'd buy the Fostex D2424- since it comes with a Hammerfall and all. I had to buy my Hammerfall separately... Your mileage may vary, though.
 
Thanks ...

Thank You very much Skippy, I really wanted to hear that, the drives can be swapped : ((like to another computer: PROTOOLS, LOGIC setup etc..) via that drive.

I think I will look into the D1624, because I only care about the cut & paste that's my main usage of the unit. I would like the D2424 but I think that price is out of my range, though I dont work with AUDIO just MIDI, I dont think I would need the HAMMERFALL card (though it would be cool to add it) but I like my MIDI/ARRANGING mix, straight to tape.

The only advantage of the HD24 it has 1/4 & optical in the back
where as the other units are specific, either optical, analog, or tdif

But thanks skippy, I'm heading to sam ash today
(I think I'm making the right choice, and not the choice of buying a component cause it's new, but because it fits well in my studio setup)
 
Whoa! Wait a minute, I misunderstood you- you didn't say anything about wanting to swap the IDE drives out of the Fostex and *into another machine*. That won't work: the Fostex data format is proprietary, and if you pull the drive out of the 1624 and put it into a computer, the computer would not recognize it. You *cannot* use the IDE drive to interchange files with a computer: it can only be used specifically for the Fostex, unless you do a complete reformat.

You _can_ interchange files using an external SCSI drive (either a hard disk or a Jaz drive). You format them FAT16 on the computer, and then the Fostex will write WAV files on them. If you let the Fostex format the disks, it'll use its proprietary FDMS3 format, and they'll be useless to any other machine.

The IDE drives do swap out, and that provides a great way to change projects. However, once the IDE drive is out of the machine, all it is good for is to hold up dust until you put it back _into_ the machine once again.

That's why the Hammerfall is important: that is the easiest and best way to get data out of the Fostex and into a DAW. You ship it out via lightpipe, and get it back the same way...

Hope this doesn't get to you too late- but you didn't specify what you wanted to swap out the disk _for_. Sorry about that.
 
Not to late

No, your not to late, I got your message.
I went to my closest used gear store and they had the D160
( I think version 2) anyway I mulled it over and over with the guy and he said it's best to wait for the HD24.

The D16 was 16bit/16tracks for $1100 and it was so so so so tempting to me, I mean I have 24 track adat, but rarely due I go past 11 tracks tops, (I mix on the computer then bounce to 2 track)

So It seemed a better bargain, keeping one adat for transfer, If I had to ever go elsewhere. The IDE drives on the HD24 are swapple to other mediums, that's cool to me, but honestly, I dont know many people who have those types of drives ANYWAY
(so why in the hell was I thinking about that.....dughhh)

It's not like I'm ever going to take it to some one elses studio and PAY THEM then mix it over there, JUST BECAUSE I HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO DO SO --- I still would like the D16 (even at 16 bit) who can tell if the music sounds good right, plus it's cheaper than the HD24 (PAUSE) but 24bit, 90gig IDE, & 24 tracks do sound nice since I have a BRC & 3 adats skippy thanks a mil man
I'm all confused --- I'll figure it out though
 
D1624

I've settled on the D1624, it has exactly what I need
16 digital IN, 16analog IN
16 digital OUT, 8 analog OUT

So basically in laemens terms that's 24 tracks (8) ghost tracks
not a bad deal considering I will have 24bit/96 optional resolution

So (looking at my watch) if Alesis doesnt show up soon 10-31-01 or 11-3-01 I'm getting the D1624.

It does the same thing, and it's compatible in my studio setup
 
You may have mistyped: the D1624 has only 8 analog ins as delivered. It does have 16 analog outs. It also has 16 digitial ins and outs. But the shortage out of the box is on the A/D side.

You can set it up to track 16 inputs simultaneously by either a) getting an external 8-channel converter with an ADAT output, and using that synced via wordclock to supplement the 8 internal converters, or b) just driving them all 16 from an external source with 2 ADAT runs.

I just recieved my AD2496 8-channel external A/D from Fostex- the chore for the weekend is to hook it up. At that point, I'll have the 16 simultaneous ins that I wanted.

The ghost tracks are really just parking places for alternate takes: you can't get access to them (to punch in or play back) without moving them to one of the 16 real tracks. So they are certainly useful, but they don't really provide a "24-track-like" capability. I use them to keep alternative takes around, and they are indeed great for that...

The D1624s are sure cheap these days, though (almost 40% cheaper than when I got mine!), and they are solid as a rock. I think you'll get a lot of use out of it.
 
Skippy,

if it's any re-assurance to you, once I coupled my D160 and VC8 AD/DA converter to a decent console (my S/craft Studio 24/8), everything works like a charm..........no more of those earlier problems that plagued us when hooked up to a Behringer.

Also the prices on the 1624 have dropped dramatically here too, but I dont think I'll risk a divorce case by saying I want to upgrade.

Peace..........ChrisO :cool:
 
I dont understand...

This is scarey, I just ordered the unit and you tell me that the 8 tracks are ---not like real tracks you can play back.

So if I record an 8 part harmony(on the 8 analog in/ghost tracks), there is no way to hear that back unless I bounce that to one of the 1--16 ((live)) tracks ?

So there is no WAY to hear back those 8 ghost tracks via that
1-16 analog out?

Well I better call them back and say it's a no go on that order.

Cause my idea was, I have two FOSTEX VM200, with the 1624
I could patch (8 optical I/O) via MIXER 1 and (8 optical I/O) via MIXER 2, with the 8 analog outs from the 1624 to MIXER 2 (8 analog in) to hear playback of analog (GHOST) tracks. that was my theory

So will that work or not work, they will ship the unit tomorrow, so I need to know, I'm getting it from MUSICIANSFRIEND, I have my order number and everything so let me know SKIPPY, cause if that's the case, I'll go get the MACKIE MDR2496 and just use 16 digital tracks via my two mixers and figure how the hell I could use the 3rd optical. Someone else told me about the Converters so I guess it's an issue to some, but I cant tell the difference neither can the A&R's that buy my tracks. but I at least want to do it right ya know. My VM200's are 20 bit 64 X A/D
but 20 bit 128 X D/A after the mix through my ADATS to CD, and I play them on those big MACKIE SYSTEM 800's or some other ((everyone's bopping there head)) So please someone enlighten me on my scenario, will it or will it not work, should I cancel the order or will I be able to what I mentioned above.

signed

just trying to upgrade to save space tired of keeping
tapes of sessions in my closet and would rather have
a hard disk to store it on and do the same exact thing
 
The ghost tracks are unrelated to the number of A/D converters.

As delivered, you can record 8 tracks at once. Those 8 can go onto any of the 16 real tracks. If you add an external 8-channel converter, you can record all 16 real tracks at once. You can *always* play back all 16 of the real tracks at once.

The 8 "ghost" tracks are just temporary parking places for data. You can record onto real track 1, and then move it onto ghost track 17- that mans that you still have 16 available real tracks tracks to record on. But you can't *listen* to the ghost track until you move it _back_ onto a real track.

The ghost tracks do not make the machine a 24-track, in terms or recording onto them and playing back from them: you only have 16 ins and 16 outs.
 
Thanks...

Thanks ... glad I cancelled my order last night, I have a print out of the back of the machine, then I sorted it out in my head after I read your post, LOGICALLY I wished it worked my way
but after looking at it, I realized it's just a storage space


Guess I'm going to get the MACKIE MDR this afternoon.
I could get the (3) optical cards, but as I said before I have two digital mixers with (1) set of adat opt on each, the other is spdif

wait! couldnt I just transfer two tracks via spdif out (Mixer)
into the adat in of the MDR
but then I wont be able to hear them both back --arrrrrrgh---
so I'd have to figure out how to connect the analog output of the MDR to my VM200 just get (2) cards for 16 digital, keep 1 analog card in and figure out how to connect that to the board.

This is so painstakingly draining, I almost feel compelled to stay with my adats and deal with the tape storage
 
mstudio,

You said you rarely go past 11 tracks........so wouldn't the D1624 plus Fostex's AD/DA converter do it for you, as that setup would give you 16 tracks of simultaneous analogue recording and playback.
You then have the additional 8 "ghost" tracks to store alternate takes which can be bounced around until you decided on which tracks to finally use in mix down.

Peace.........ChrisO :cool:
 
Okay, let's try this again.

You can *always* monitor anything that is recorded on any of the 16 real tracks. Whatever is on them, you can always hear, because the 1624 comes with 16 D/As driving 16 analog outputs as stock. It also simultaneously applies that same output to its pair of ADAT output ports.

I now understand that you have two digital mixers with 8-channel ADAT outputs. I had to look up the VM200 on the Fostex site to find out what it was... We'll use those as the "external converters". You would connect the ADAT output on one of them to the ADAT input for tracks 1-8, the ADAT out of the *other* to the ADAT input for tracks 9-16, and record 16 channels at once. The 8 A/Ds that come with the 1624 won't even enter into it: you are bypassing them entirely with this setup, using the converters in your VM200s. You already *have* what you need to record 16 at a time.

To monitor, you could then run the 16 anolog outs from the 1624 back to your mixers. Or, since you have ADAT ins on the mixers as well, you could run the ADAT outs on the 1624 to the ADAT ins on the mixers. Daisy chain the mixers together using the stereo outputs of the first to drive the stereo effects return of the second (for example), which will allow you to mix all 16 down to a single stereo pair for monitoring, mixing, or what have you. But according to what you say, you should have the ability to record _and monitor_ 16 tracks already in hand. No more hardware to buy: you're already good to go.

The only issue would be clocking: set the first VM200 up as master, and then distribute its word clock to the other VM200 (configured as slave), and to the 1624 (configured as slave). Done.

*Forget* about the ghost tracks. They are completely meaningless in terms of tracking and monitoring- they just provide temporary storage for tacks that you aren't sure you want to keep, and want to get out of the way without just deleting them. This is a 16-track recorder, pure and simple.
 
I understand guys...

Skippy & Ausrock

I understand, I guess the GEARWHORE in me is coming out, and I would rather have more than JUST ENOUGH -- Ausrock, I do rarely record more than 11 being that my music stays on the computer
so vocally I may use 9-11 tracks (R&B, POP, CLASSICAL)

Skippy, I 100 percent got you that the D1624 is JUST A 16 channel
drive, like I said, the GEARWHORE in me, is coming out, plus I have people eggin me on to get the 24 track units cause they are more WORLDLY known, and recognizable. So I'm fighting with myself, should I, or shouldn't I , Is more better, or be complacent in what I do, and work miracles with what I have.

the plus the the D1624 ----price is nice----

Being a vocalist I know exactly what I want and need so the GHOST tracks would be irrelevant to me, I get it there and go RECORD, mix the track send it all to CD via SPDIF and NEEEEXT

So openly and adamantly and caaaaalmly WHAT SHOULD I GET ?
 
The 1624 is dirt cheap right now. If 16 tracks will serve your needs, it a very easy way to get them. If you need _more_ than 16, or if you contempate needing more than 16 in the near future, it probably is not the box to get.

The gear-whore in me wishes that I'd known that the D2424 was coming out when I bought my D1624. But the realist in me knows that I'm completely confortable doing my style of music in 16 tracks, and that I have seldom really needed 24 at any point in my career. My whole studio, and in fact my whole mental image of the recording process, is set up around 16 tracks. The accountant in me knows that it is somewhat silly to buy more capability than I need. But the gear-whore in me _completely_ overwhelms the accountant pretty much every time... (;-)

If you just need 16, the D1624 is one hell of a cost-effective way to get it, with no additional hardware needed: the fact that the VM200s will handle 16 inputs each simultaneously (8 analog/8 digital) lets you set up the mixers and the machine permanently interconnected with ADAT (no repatching!), and just use the analog ins for your mic sources for your vocal work.

To make use of a 24, you'll really need more hardware to monitor it and use it effectively (or you'll be repatching a lot), and you may set yourself on the gear-whore downward spiral, forever laying in more equipment. Oh, hell, that's a lock: we're _all_ on that spiral...

I know the gear-whore thing very well. I'm seriously jonesing for a Soundcraft Ghost. Do I _need_ it in order to make my music? No. But it will sound a bit better, and make many tasks a bit easier, than what I've got. And it will drop in without making me change my working style to fit it. The accountant in me cringes, the gear-whore in me _drools_. Guess who's gonna win? (;-)

I don't think we can tell you what to get: we can only advise if things will/wont/can't do what you need. But if you just need 16, the 1624 will definitely do a good job for you, at a minimal cash outlay. Best of luck in the decision making process!
 
Thanks a bunch

Skippy

you are RIGHT, thank you on pointing it out to me that way.

In the beginning I purchased 3 adats / BRC, turns out I never actually used the 3rd adat ----EVER ---. Now with my 8 month old son, I want to condence (WHAT I NEEEEED OVER WHAT I DONT)
and boy do your FRIENDS & AFFILIATES tempt you into things
plus make you feel absolutely crappy when you purchase something that's not what they use i.e. O1V, D8B, AVALON etc...

but overall I am a producer / engineer I can make birds sound good in a song. The Accountant in me ( I LIKE THAT SYNONYM)
tells me D1624, the WHORE in me says MORE IS BETTER, but logically, I would NOT be able to hear the 3rd optical due to both my mixers only have 8 I/O optical on each, so the 3rd optical would be either SPDIF (two track) or ??????

and how stupid would that be to pay $2000 to hear only 18 trks


Thank you, Bless you, and may all your decisions be EASY
Thank you guys, GOD BLESS HOMERECORDING

(making my way to Sam Ash to do a 2nd check on the MDR opt, but leaning toward the phone to call MUSICIANFRIEND back)
 
I've made a decision

The Mackie MDR2496 is the winner

SKIPPY, I've figured how it will work in my system

8 digital on the first mixer - I/Odig card-MDR2496
8 digital on the second mixer I/Odig card-MDR2496
8 analog on the second mixer Dsub to (8) 1/4 plugs
24

place one of the 1/4 into BUSS OUT/Mixer to record into 17---24

My first mixer has all the synths connected to it, so the analog is taken up, but I can listen to the digital ins

WIPING MY HANDS CLEAN and FEELING GOOD ABOUT THE DECISION. Honestly I just want the unit for the COPY/PASTE feature, vocally I'm going to KILL IT, stay tuned for "BLISS"

"Step into the New Soul"
 
it works, it works, ITTTTTT WORRRRRKS

BRC -- MDR --1 adat--Cubase --- all works in perfect harmony

it actually freakin flarn floogin worked right out the box

now I want the Remote 24, but I have to see if it will control my 1 adat, since it doesnt have a 9 pin on the back of it, I wonder how this will work. but over all YIPPEEEEEE I'm happy


I have (2) LX20's for sale $1300, and a few other things...

THANKS FELLAS for all your help in my decision
 
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