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Sud
New member
I'm looking to get a Fostex MR-8, but I was wondering what are the big differences between it and the Pandora PXR4, aside from one having 8 tracks and the other having 4?
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Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Well, my knowledge of the MR-8 is quite limited. I do, however, have extensive experience with the PXR4. I believe it is one of the most overlooked, underated miniaturized marvels on earth. It would be fair to say, I think, that I am an amateur who is pretty deep into it at this point. We are now at that dividing line between kickass project studio and fly-by-night pro. In other words, about $40,000 worth of gear crammed into one heavily conditioned basement. In the growth process, many pieces of gear have come and gone, but the Pandora remains. When I made my first major purchase, I piled up about $8,000 worth of gear and I said, "Yeah, I think that's all I need (boy was I wrong), but I want...that. Just put it on the pile. A few hundred one way or the other doesn't make that much difference now." Since then, the Pandora has been with me always. You need to understand what it's good for, and what it's not.
Is it the core of a kickass project studio? No. What it is, is the PDA of a recording artist. When I travel, I have a solid body, the Pandora, a stereo mic, and a set of headphones. If I here a busker, and I want to capture the performance, Wham. Turn it on, and set it down. For more serious remote recording, I use it in stereo with a Sony ECM-MS957 stereo mic.
It's a tuner, a metronome, a simple drum machine, a reverb unit, a compressor, a gate, an amp modeler, a DI box. After 3 years, having worked my way up to a fairly impressive Pro Tools rig, I am still finding out things the Pandora does that I didn't know about. It does time based editing. It punches, overdubs, downloads to the computer in MP-2 format by USB port.
I'll tell you what it does that an MR-8 doesn't do- It fits in my pocket, or my guitar case. Unlike the MR-8, it's there when you want it to be, because it's *small*. If you are going to use this as the core of a home studio on a shoestring budget, I'd say get a larger unit with bigger faders, but...
Think of it this way- A digital recorder is a computer. There is a server (I can't afford it) There's a desktop (my studio is built around it), there's a laptop (I don't need it), and there's a palm. The Pandora is precisely that palm. The quality of the sound and the FX this baby does, for what it is, is astounding. I'm considering buying another unit after 3 years, because I'm afraid they'll discontinue it, and there is currently no realistic replacement on the market. It hasn't sold real well, so the price has continued to drop. Why? It's so small that no one takes it seriously. It looks like a toy. Nobody who has heard the results when used by someone who understands it has failed to be impressed.
I was at a concert where the band's PA's reverb unit decided to bite, and the lead singer was going ballistic. I patched the Pandora into an insert on the mixer, and ran it as a pure reverb unit. That band has one patched to their mixer to this day, just as an FX box. I would never be without it.-Richie
Is it the core of a kickass project studio? No. What it is, is the PDA of a recording artist. When I travel, I have a solid body, the Pandora, a stereo mic, and a set of headphones. If I here a busker, and I want to capture the performance, Wham. Turn it on, and set it down. For more serious remote recording, I use it in stereo with a Sony ECM-MS957 stereo mic.
It's a tuner, a metronome, a simple drum machine, a reverb unit, a compressor, a gate, an amp modeler, a DI box. After 3 years, having worked my way up to a fairly impressive Pro Tools rig, I am still finding out things the Pandora does that I didn't know about. It does time based editing. It punches, overdubs, downloads to the computer in MP-2 format by USB port.
I'll tell you what it does that an MR-8 doesn't do- It fits in my pocket, or my guitar case. Unlike the MR-8, it's there when you want it to be, because it's *small*. If you are going to use this as the core of a home studio on a shoestring budget, I'd say get a larger unit with bigger faders, but...
Think of it this way- A digital recorder is a computer. There is a server (I can't afford it) There's a desktop (my studio is built around it), there's a laptop (I don't need it), and there's a palm. The Pandora is precisely that palm. The quality of the sound and the FX this baby does, for what it is, is astounding. I'm considering buying another unit after 3 years, because I'm afraid they'll discontinue it, and there is currently no realistic replacement on the market. It hasn't sold real well, so the price has continued to drop. Why? It's so small that no one takes it seriously. It looks like a toy. Nobody who has heard the results when used by someone who understands it has failed to be impressed.
I was at a concert where the band's PA's reverb unit decided to bite, and the lead singer was going ballistic. I patched the Pandora into an insert on the mixer, and ran it as a pure reverb unit. That band has one patched to their mixer to this day, just as an FX box. I would never be without it.-Richie
Sloan
New member
I was looking at the MR-8 since it records uncompressed...
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Sud
New member
Thanks
Thanks. Sounds like its powerful unit. I have a few more questions now. What is punch in/out? And if it records 4 tracks is there a way of mixing more tracks together, like if i wanted 3 guitar tracks, a bass track, and vocals?
Thanks. Sounds like its powerful unit. I have a few more questions now. What is punch in/out? And if it records 4 tracks is there a way of mixing more tracks together, like if i wanted 3 guitar tracks, a bass track, and vocals?
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Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Yo Sud! "Punching in" is seamlessly re-recording just a portion of a track, usually to replace a section with a mistake. And yes, what you are asking about is called "bouncing" tracks, where 2 or more tracks are combined into one to clear some other tracks. That's how George Martin recorded "Sargent Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" on two four trackers. Yes, the Pandora will bounce tracks. The hard part is getting the mix right going in, because once you bounce tracks, you can't separate them. This requires you to get the EQ and relative levels right the first time. At least if it sucks, before you save it, you can "undo" what you did and try it a different way. Also, you have to bounce in the right order, so you combine tracks that will be panned the same way.
Remember I said you have to know what it is and is not good for? If I was getting into that many tracks, I simply wouldn't use a 4 tracker. I'd go to something like Roland VS2000CD and use about 16 tracks. It's also a $2000 machine that doesn't fit in your pocket. But yeah, with sufficient expertise, you can definitely do stuff with the Pandora that it really has no business doing.-Richie
Remember I said you have to know what it is and is not good for? If I was getting into that many tracks, I simply wouldn't use a 4 tracker. I'd go to something like Roland VS2000CD and use about 16 tracks. It's also a $2000 machine that doesn't fit in your pocket. But yeah, with sufficient expertise, you can definitely do stuff with the Pandora that it really has no business doing.-Richie
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Sud
New member
Thanks Richard. That helps clear things up.
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BadAssRingo
New member
What does it mean that the Pandora records tracks compressed??
What are the advatanges and disadvantages??
My hope in getting this is to record drum ideas and drum tracks using a stereo condenser mic (I have SONY ECM-MS907) and then sending such a track to my friends to put a part over it in a sense to do songwriting. Then create a volley until a few tracks are fleshed out (I guess the bouncing thing would be done each time). Not to make anything too elaborate just to get ideas fleshed out. Does anyone else do this??
Secondly, if I wanted to do something like also mic my bass drum would I have to use a mixer for this?? I wonder if other drummers do this too.
Has anyone gotten it for less than $299?
What are the advatanges and disadvantages??
My hope in getting this is to record drum ideas and drum tracks using a stereo condenser mic (I have SONY ECM-MS907) and then sending such a track to my friends to put a part over it in a sense to do songwriting. Then create a volley until a few tracks are fleshed out (I guess the bouncing thing would be done each time). Not to make anything too elaborate just to get ideas fleshed out. Does anyone else do this??
Secondly, if I wanted to do something like also mic my bass drum would I have to use a mixer for this?? I wonder if other drummers do this too.
Has anyone gotten it for less than $299?
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deepwater
New member
If you want to be happy breakdown and buy a Yamaha AW16G. Its the best all in one unit for under 1k.
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DJL
Self Banned
I just got a PXR4 a few days ago, and I give it both thumbs up... it's a nice little recorder.
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billisa
New member
deepwater said:
It's almost as good as the Fostex VF160 that goes for under $800.00! ;-)
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DJL
Self Banned
The more I play with the Korg PXR4, the more I like it. 
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billisa
New member
DJL said:The more I play with the Korg PXR4, the more I like it.
Korg is such a quality company. Great, reliable, well thought out products, great tech support... My son has the PX4 guitar effects module. Tremendous little device.
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Richard Monroe
Well-known member
I been tellin' people for years, the little bugger rocks! I'm very interested in whether you get one of the less pricey stereo DAT type mics. Battery power is crucial, and electret mics have low draw. I'd like to be able to recommend the little $100 Sony (either version), but I can't, because I've never heard them. I use the Pandora by itself, with the Sony mic, as a suitcase microstudio, and as a metronome. It's sound is a lot less jarring than plugins that I've got, or my VS1824CD. The Pandora does good click track. It's not a real bad headphone amp for one channel.. One accessory that has proven useful to me is EBTech LLS-2 line level shifter. Some preamps really need to be stepped down to -10 to be used without clipping the Pandora's poor little preamp. I only use it occasionally, but when I need it, I need it. There's a larger suitcase version with a 12 volt power supply, invertor, a DMP-3, and a pair of C-4's for "semi-serious remote recording. Because I do Medieval recreation, I want to hide the high tech stuff while the minstrel is playing. No ancient ambience in an NTK. For modern venues, I use the Roland, usually supported by outboard gear.-Richie
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DJL
Self Banned
Cheap Stereo Microphones
The Korg PXR4 built-in mic is better than I thought it would be. Also, I'm tellin' people about the PXR4 now too... it's a great little recorder and etc.
Richard, you're plugging your Sony ECM-MS957 mic straight into the PXR4 "Line Input" (no external preamp) right?
I just got an AT PRO 24 mic ($60), and it's an improvement over the PXR4 built-in mic.
Also, I just ordered a Sony ECM-MS907 ($80) mic today... I'll let you know what I think. Don
The Korg PXR4 built-in mic is better than I thought it would be. Also, I'm tellin' people about the PXR4 now too... it's a great little recorder and etc.
Richard, you're plugging your Sony ECM-MS957 mic straight into the PXR4 "Line Input" (no external preamp) right?
I just got an AT PRO 24 mic ($60), and it's an improvement over the PXR4 built-in mic.
Also, I just ordered a Sony ECM-MS907 ($80) mic today... I'll let you know what I think. Don
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Richard Monroe
Well-known member
That's right, Don- into the 1/8" mini line in. Battery power, no preamp. The input is looking for what you would get from an electret condenser, commonly used with DAT machines, which is not that far from -10 line level. You're right. The built in mic is pretty good. Unfortunately, it's an omni that only does one channel. It's very nice, though, just to capture a moment. In standard resolution, which is good enough for the notebook purpose, it'll do one channel for 2 hrs, 14 minutes 40 sec. That's an hour 7 min or so in stereo. There is an adaptor- which won't allow you to shut the little trap door on the Smart Media port, that will allow you to feed it with flash media, up to 512mb. For longer period remote recording, that is a lot more convenient. It'll take a week or so to get the item #'s from the right geek.
I don't know if the Sony mic you're getting is coincedent ot M-S. If it is M-S, I've found that working with a hard-wired M-S mic is different than working with a cardioid and a figure 8. With 2 mics, you copy the figure 8 track, reverse phase, and then adjust the cardioid to dial in stereo separation.
With the one-point M-S mic, your stereo separation is set. It's already 2 tracks, not 3. The figure 8 signal is already panned down the middle and the phase reversed. Therefore, positioning is more crucial. You have to find the sweet spot going in, you won't be able to dial it in later. And- my Sony M-S mic is a rather noisy bugger on the figure 8 lobe, - it cancels out wonderfully- unless- you change the input or output level of either stereo track. As soon as you do that, you can hear that noise. It's eerie. We've actually sat and watched a visible noise floor of about -40db on two stereo tracks, and no one in the room could hear it. The main reason for an external mic, though, is handling/button noise, and for convenience of mic placement. -Richie
I don't know if the Sony mic you're getting is coincedent ot M-S. If it is M-S, I've found that working with a hard-wired M-S mic is different than working with a cardioid and a figure 8. With 2 mics, you copy the figure 8 track, reverse phase, and then adjust the cardioid to dial in stereo separation.
With the one-point M-S mic, your stereo separation is set. It's already 2 tracks, not 3. The figure 8 signal is already panned down the middle and the phase reversed. Therefore, positioning is more crucial. You have to find the sweet spot going in, you won't be able to dial it in later. And- my Sony M-S mic is a rather noisy bugger on the figure 8 lobe, - it cancels out wonderfully- unless- you change the input or output level of either stereo track. As soon as you do that, you can hear that noise. It's eerie. We've actually sat and watched a visible noise floor of about -40db on two stereo tracks, and no one in the room could hear it. The main reason for an external mic, though, is handling/button noise, and for convenience of mic placement. -Richie
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DJL
Self Banned
The Sony ECM-MS907 is a "one-point stereo mic"... with a 90/120 degree mid-side stereo switch... and it runs for about 200 hours on one AA battery. It should be here tuesday or wednesday.
It should be here tuesday or wednesday.
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Richard Monroe
Well-known member
Yup- that's a mid-side mic (electret condenser mic-mid-side 907), so most of my experience should apply. My 957 rocks, but you have to find the sweet spot in the room, and the input and output levels on the 2 stereo channels must be set as close as possible to each other. YMMV. Let me know how it sounds.-Richie
P.S.- here's a current ebay auction that cpould be an opportunity for a 957 cheap-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=3778351217&rd=1
P.S.- here's a current ebay auction that cpould be an opportunity for a 957 cheap-
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15198&item=3778351217&rd=1
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DJL
Self Banned
Where/who did you get yours from?Richard Monroe said:
Does anyone make/sell a SmartMedia card copier? Thanks, Don.
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Richard Monroe
Well-known member
That's it- I *don't* have the adaptor, but a buddy of mine who is a big time geek does. He's out of town, but I'll see him in a week or so and get the unit #. I find that 3 128mb cards are adequate for my needs. If I was doing shows, I'd want the bigger memory. As far as smart media copier, I've never seen one. Bad news- Smart Media is dying technology. In time, the cards will become harder to find, but I still love my Pandora. When I was intimidated by the VS1824CD, I cut my teeth, if you will, on multitrack recording with the Pandora. You can use it as a 2 channel EQ. One of the coolest things about the Pandora is the surprising quality of some of it's FX and signal processing. When hard up, I've used it quite a bit as an outboard multi FX box, gate, compressor. Just find a way to match line level impedence I'm happy to say the Joemeek twinQ has switchable 1/4" line outs -10/+4. It should feed the Pandora just fine. It's twisted hooking a full fledged pre to the Pandora, but it works-on batteries.-Richie
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Richard Monroe
Well-known member
That's it- I *don't* have the adaptor, but a buddy of mine who is a big time geek does. He's out of town, but I'll see him in a week or so and get the unit #. I find that 3 128mb cards are adequate for my needs. If I was doing shows, I'd want the bigger memory. As far as smart media copier, I've never seen one. Bad news- Smart Media is dying technology. In time, the cards will become harder to find, but I still love my Pandora. When I was intimidated by the VS1824CD, I cut my teeth, if you will, on multitrack recording with the Pandora. You can use it as a 2 channel EQ. One of the coolest things about the Pandora is the surprising quality of some of it's FX and signal processing. When hard up, I've used it quite a bit as an outboard multi FX box, gate, compressor. Just find a way to match line level impedence. I'm happy to say the Joemeek twinQ has switchable 1/4" line outs -10/+4. It should feed the Pandora just fine. It's twisted hooking a full fledged pre to the Pandora, but it works-on batteries, in a briefcase-Richie