Formal degree required?

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fldrummer

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I know most of us here are recording at home but I know some work for companies at one time or another. Is it standard for most large compaines to require to have a degree? I found a company and here's one of it's Requirements:

"Formal degree or certification in audio production required."

I know they're many good mixes out their that have some really skilled guys that never spent a day in any type of college and after looking in to places like Full Sail (I don't want to get that topic started again) It just seems quite pricey. I guess audio is like all kinds of bussiness? You need the degree to get the good jobs?

What ways could somebody get a certification with out breaking the bank?
 
fldrummer said:
I guess audio is like all kinds of bussiness? You need the degree to get the good jobs?
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Actually, that's not true at all with respect to audio.... it's one of the few industries that having a paper really means nothing. The audio industry is all about experience and credentials, not meaningless certs.... you're only as good as your last production, and if a potential employer values some sort of certficiation over your personal demo reel (ie, of your client's productions, not necessarily your own music!), then you need to find a different employer because they clearlyare looking at the wrong criteria!
 
While a formal degree isn't required it does show a larger studio how seriously you take your craft. In my personal experience I've found that students who graduate with a college degree in audio engineering have an easier time finding internships with studios than those without. Also the references from schools can be very helpful in getting a position.

Of course if you have a proven track record, experience matters most.
 
also, a lot of schools like Full Sail now offer Entertainment Business degrees. Depending on how indepth you want to get with the industry, a business degree may help you a) work more as a freelancer or b) eventually own your own studio some day.
 
sometimes you can get lucky and find an internship without a degree as long as you know what your talking about, and have "the ear" able to mix decent and they will help you become good. And if they see you are a very dedicated person to what you do.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
Actually, that's not true at all with respect to audio.... it's one of the few industries that having a paper really means nothing. The audio industry is all about experience and credentials, not meaningless certs.... you're only as good as your last production, and if a potential employer values some sort of certficiation over your personal demo reel (ie, of your client's productions, not necessarily your own music!), then you need to find a different employer because they clearlyare looking at the wrong criteria!
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Hear, hear!

I don't know about audio production grads in particular, but... a lot of people come out of schools with communications-related degrees lacking basic editing skills or (time) arithmetic. Yeah, if a company is drooling over a degree and ignoring experience, my gut feeling says that company is going to get what they deserve. :D
 
My personal feeling is that I'd rather have a green intern I can mold rather than some certificate-bearing hotshot whose first comments are "...that's not how we learned it school, man..." That guy would be shown the door so quickly their head would spin!

But that's just my opinion!
 
audio school should only be used to learn how to get better. Thats what you should be hired on. It doesnt matter if you graduate or not, but if you learn a lot there that allows you to make platinum records, then it was totally worth it.
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
My personal feeling is that I'd rather have a green intern I can mold rather than some certificate-bearing hotshot whose first comments are "...that's not how we learned it school, man..." That guy would be shown the door so quickly their head would spin!

But that's just my opinion!
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see that's the thing....students realize that in the audio industry. mainly 'cause the people teaching the students are current or former engineers who TELL them that. i don't think i've met one student that says "the way i learned it in school is the way it is." They know studio owners like you don't give a shit, so they don't bother trying to show it off. But in studios now-a-days, engineers want experience...but how is a kid supposed to get experience if all the engineers wanna hire people with experience?! It's a catch-22.
The kids go to school so that they can actually get the basics.
I'd wanna hire a person who has at least the basic knowledge and is serious enough about the field to spend $30K+ on a school just to get a foot in the door, rather than someone who just walks into your studio and says "I wanna do what you do." You'd spend more time showing the basics to a kid like that than you would telling another kid to shut the hell up and just listen to what you tell him to do....but at the same time not worrying if the graduate is going to put the demagnetizer on top of the 2" reel of tape or not.
 
True -- I think graduating from a formal audio training course should be looked at as the START of the person's education, not the end of it! That's very often not the way many grad school grads appear to view it however -- at least from those few I've talked to!
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
My personal feeling is that I'd rather have a green intern I can mold rather than some certificate-bearing hotshot whose first comments are "...that's not how we learned it school, man..." That guy would be shown the door so quickly their head would spin!

But that's just my opinion!
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Oh yeah attitude is a big part of who I would hire as an intern, but you can get that from people without degrees as well.

Of the students that graduated this year from the college I teach, one has a gig at MTV, another at Classic Sound in NY, another at ABC TV, and others at various local studios in PA. They seem to have done pretty well.
 
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i don't necessarily think all students that graduate with a degree are gonna think they know everything, I plan on going for and audio degree but in now way think I will know everything, I am only going to start my learning and to get a better chance at entering the industry. The only people that graduate with their degree and think they know everything are the ones that will probably have no chance in the business but this is just my thought and I'm only starting out so correct me if I'm wrong
 
This guy I know online named Skwirl interned at a local studio with years of experience already under his belt, now the CEO has him as the head engineer and he's making a living off of it. Also, he's never went to any Recording arts college such as Full Sail or anything.
 
The Engineer said:
This guy I know online named Skwirl interned at a local studio with years of experience already under his belt, now the CEO has him as the head engineer and he's making a living off of it. Also, he's never went to any Recording arts college such as Full Sail or anything.
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In the "old days" most jobs at studios were through apprenticeships, so this isn't atypical. You can get a job in recording either way really, but if you're doing it on your own you are probably going to be making an investment in gear rather than college and starting your own business (a great experience as well). There's nothing wrong with doing it this way, but in the beginning you may be making the wrong purchases (due to finances or believing the hype) and alot of mistakes in recording and mixing. Hopefully forums like this one help to prevent this.

With a formal education however you will be using (hopefully) pro gear and getting experience with that as well as developing relationships with people that may be higher up in the pro audio food chain that can help you prevent those initial mistakes and give recommendations to other studios. If you had an investment in a multi-million dollar studio who would you be more likely to hire as an intern, one who has been working on a lower end prosumer console/mics/outboard gear or somebody who has experience with a pro gear? With the advent of Pro Tools some of this may be changing as there is a more level playing ground, but I'm not seeing it yet.

Personally I'm not recommending one or the other. It sort of depends on your goals (to own a recording studio, or to work in a large established one). I would recommend both however if you can afford it.
 
masteringhouse said:
In the "old days" most jobs at studios were through apprenticeships, so this isn't atypical. You can get a job in recording either way really, but if you're doing it on your own you are probably going to be making an investment in gear rather than college and starting your own business (a great experience as well). There's nothing wrong with doing it this way, but in the beginning you may be making the wrong purchases (due to finances or believing the hype) and alot of mistakes in recording and mixing. Hopefully forums like this one help to prevent this.

With a formal education however you will be using (hopefully) pro gear and getting experience with that as well as developing relationships with people that may be higher up in the pro audio food chain that can help you prevent those initial mistakes and give recommendations to other studios. If you had an investment in a multi-million dollar studio who would you be more likely to hire as an intern, one who has been working on a lower end prosumer console/mics/outboard gear or somebody who has experience with a pro gear? With the advent of Pro Tools some of this may be changing as there is a more level playing ground, but I'm not seeing it yet.

Personally I'm not recommending one or the other. It sort of depends on your goals (to own a recording studio, or to work in a large established one). I would recommend both however if you can afford it.
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Tom,
just out of curiosity what/where do you teach?
 
Blue Bear Sound said:
My personal feeling is that I'd rather have a green intern I can mold rather than some certificate-bearing hotshot whose first comments are "...that's not how we learned it school, man..." That guy would be shown the door so quickly their head would spin!

But that's just my opinion!
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and the attitude that "pro tools" is everything you have to know...
 
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