Floor Monitors good enough for rest of PA system?

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sjaguar13

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The singer is playing out of 2 cabinets, each with 2-15 and a horn. We need floor monitors and we found 4 speakers. Each speaker has an 8 inch long throw woofer. Two rectangular, high powered piezo tweeters for maximum clarity and dispersion. They handle 300 watts of pure power per pair and they are very efficient. They will produce 93 decibels of crystal clear sound with just one watt of power. The speakers we are playing out of now handles 600 watts rms and 1200 peak. each woofer has a 50 oz magnet and 2" voice coil. 4 ohm cabinet. Plays at 99db and from 25 to 20,000htz. The PA head is 300 watts. The 4 speakers should be safe to use as monitors during shows....right?
 
With all those fancy specs you left out the only ones that really matter, the ohm ratings for the cabs and the head.

The speakers are probably fine but the pa head will be chugging to power all of 'em.
 
I think Tex means the amp, 300W @ ??Ohm

What the hell are these thing? (at the risk of starting a commercial):)

How they are ran would make a difference as well? out of the amp, or out of the jack on the back of the mains? Will they be ran on a seperate channel on the amp? What are the mains rated at? A whole lot of things would come into play.
Even the size of events you play. indoor or out door.If you only are putting the singer threw maybe you could pull it off. ??? When I was running just the singer through I never had monitors:) We always just stood in front of the speakers...Don't ask me how it ever worked. I have run everything through the mains for years now.. Much cleaner sound:)




More power is always better:):):)

good luck, and I want to know what these monitors are?!?!?!

F.S.
 
I don't know the ohm rating on anything. How would I find that out? If I have the PA head send to the two big cabs and the 4 little ones with just the singer, that would work? What if I have a mixer and more than just the singer is sent to them, will they still work then?
 
Hmmm??? I don't know what to tell you.

With out spec's I would say you might pull it off with just the vocals (if your guys are not playing threw marshall half stacks. You have to keep up with the drums at least (they have no volume knob). You can turn the guitars down.......
With everything running through..... I really doubt it. And I don't know if you have the means to run more through the mains and just the vocals through the monitors.? either way though it would be very taxing on the amp. When you press an amp that hard you are likely to hear problems in the sound.


I have to say though it's all a shot in the dark not knowing what you are doing.

Where do you plan to play? do they have a house system?
What kind of music? heavy metal? country? is the place loud or are you doing weddings.


Short answer is no either way, but you have to understand if your amp is 300W at 8 ohm that it is (some one give the actual specs) like a 600w amp at 4 ohms or visa versa. I do not know the calcualation but a 600w @ 4 ohm cab more like 200 or 300 watts in the real world of 8 and 16ohm cabnits. If you find a amp rated at 1000W at 8 ohms it is one Kick Ass amp as far as power goes but if it is rates at 1000W at 2 ohms it is not so special.

I hope that makes some sence. I am not the master of all formulas so I can't get exact for you.


Look at the back of the amp for ratings, or better yet look at the owners manuel if you have it. also look at your cabs. and you can match them up. Your amp manuel may say 150 watts per channel at 8 ohms, if you have 8 ohm cabs walla . now you know your output... 300w, 150 per side.

Either way you slice it it is not the perfect small venue set up. I would say a little lacking in power and versatility. You would do well to have a seperate amp for monitors with an EQ in line. you
can not mix for 8 inch woofers and tweeters on the same eq as a 15 and a horn (unless you plain luck out).

Later

F.S.
 
Is 300 watts at 8 ohms good? What should I have? We played a show last night for 100 people. The shows aren't too big, but we have really bad sound quality. We were planning on using the speakers for monitors, or maybe to make the singer louder. We might use one for guitar, one for bass, one for vocals, and I don't know about the other. What am I looking for, like if the 300 watts head is at 8 ohms, what about the speakers? Should they be 300 watts at 8 ohms too, or less? What if I'm going to run more than just one instrument through it, how do I tell then?
 
I hate to say it but.....save your money and get something good. A good 12" + a compression driver on a horn will eat all 4 of those cabs with piezo horns for lunch. If you play any kind of loud...and I am talking above you and an acoustic guitar, the piezos will just cause issues and you will not hear anything. I have been there and I have wasted my time and money.

Let me go on to say how critical monitors are. Most people really cheap out here because they think that the audience will not hear them so, why spend more than $100? But the problem is, if you do not have an inspiring sound coming back to you, you will likely not have an insprining performance. Would you play through the cheapest amp you could find or on the cheapest guitar? Would you play cardboard boxes for drums (OK, I have seen this and it was well miced and cool but not my point). NO. You get tones that insprire you to play better and really do your best. Don't scrimp on the vocalist.

T
 
Are you using that ONE 300w amp to do all that? Because if you are, you have some serious problems. Number, one, that amp should be used on those 300w floor speakers only. Your amp pwer should NEVER be below the power rating of the speakers, contrairy to popular belief. Going above is better! Is going below that causes the amp to run hot, and puts undue stress on the speakers, which can damage them too if you're using them for extended periods of time.

Meaning, you need two 1200w @ 8ohm amps for your mains, and 2 300w @ 8ohm amps, or if thats not the peak, then match whatever the peak is, for your floor monitors. Good speakon cables can't hurt either. Keep in mind banana plug is no longer rated for 1200w and above do to the possibility of electric shock!

Look at the crowns, or the haflers. And if money is an object, try the QSC's RMX series, or the Crown CE series. The only thing about the CE series, is I've never actually tried them, and I knew a guy that had a bad experience with them, but thats the only bad thing I heard about 'em. I own some QSC's and they work great.
 
trpullen's point is very valid. If it sounds like crap to the singer it will hurt the perfrmance of his singing. All music but especially vocals are effected my confidence/emotion. If you hear your self sounding like crap it can build in your brain.

300 watts at 8ohm is not bad for very small quiet venues. I would think you could use that for the mains in that situation. Monitors too,,, I would say that would be a stretch.

I agree with trpullen that 8inch monitors would never even cross my mind to purchase. I can't emagine getting a good sound out of them. Take a look at the carvin web site. I got a pair of 12inch with a horn monitors years back for $350.00 with covers and really nice cables. I have been very happy with them.:) and I feel for the money that they are a great deal.

As far as out front goes.. In my opinion you will never have a good clean sound with out some drastic changes. (this is if you play at any volume) I would get a board, a snake (so that you can mix out front) I would mic everything on stage except maybe the bass where you could run a direct line, I would put it all through the mains, from a minimal point of view I would want some top cab's 15inch and horn (bi-ampable!!!) and a set of subs to throw under them. Then you get an active crossover, run from the board mono through a 31 band eq then to a 3 way crossover (if you buy one get a 4 way for the extra $30). Have the crossover run into two stereo amps (by that I mean 4 mono amps) for one of the amps you need some real poop, a 800 or 1000 watt amp at 4 ohms at least. run below 200 hz into one side of the amp and out into the subs, run from 200hz to 1250hz or so in to the other side of the big amp and out to the 15's in your top cabs, Then take another amp (could be smaller 400 or 500 watts). run above 1250hz out into one side of the smaller amp and out to the horns in your top cab's, then use the other side of the smaller amp to power your monitors (running out of a aux send) Then you can dial in how much of what you want in the monitors by adjusting the aux send on that channel.

Now for the big one. Get a sound man whos work you have heard and like!!!!! Have him come in and help with the set up (at home first if possible). And always have someone other than a member of the band mix you (A sound man). Then you will be on the way to a good sound, hopefully:)

This is just about how I run. I left out some other equipment you could live with out, actually you could live without the sub's for now. But I would run the mains bi-amped anyway. You would be amazed how much an active crossover and the equipment to go with it can clean up your sound.

Just my opinion:)

later

F.S.
 
Are two 12s better than four 8s? Here is the 12: Each speaker has an 12 inch long throw woofer, one midrange horn, and three rectangular, high powered piezo tweeters for maximum clarity and dispersion. Edge protectors and grills for maximum potection to the case and the woofer. They handle 250 watts of pure power and they are very efficient as well as crystal clear.
I'm checking on the ohms. Would those be better, or do they suck, too?
 
And the way the ohms work, which is resistance, can get kinda confusing. Most PA cabs are 8 ohms, which is basically the highest resistance in PA speakers that you will see, and requires more power. So you plug one speaker into one channel into that 300w @8ohm amp. And the other one into the other channel. Assuming its 150watts per channel, you have 150w at 8 ohms running into each speaker. Now lets say you plug your PA monitors in too. Because you dont have a separate monitor amp. So you parrallel one 8 ohm monitor together with one 8 ohm main, on one channel, and the same on the other. Notice the main speakers don't get quieter. They stay the same volume. That is because you now have 300watts coming out of each amp channel @ 4 ohms. You cut the resistance in half. To put it more blaitantly, the electrons have two places to go, two one speaker or the other on the same line, which makes it easier for them to get where their going. (childish i know but its true) But the amp has to make up for this, and puts out twice as many electrons, making the amp work harder. No you don't get something for nothing. But anyway, that's how resistance (ohms) work. If you have other questions, e-mail me.
 
12's better than 8's for monitors

weather those speakers are any good I don't know. But I would go for a set of 12's with a horn. every speaker has a range of frequency it produces most efficiantly. 8's will accell in mid range sound leaving you with a pretty thin sound I would think. 12's would have a fuller sound. can 8 inch speakers produce low sounds, yes depending on the speaker. does the speaker have to work harder to get close to the same results? Yes. you also have to take into account the surface area of the speaker. If a 8 inch cone cycles in and out 1/2 an inch at a very low freq. and a 12 inch cone does the same which one moves more air creating a higher sound pressure level (and the thump). The 12 inch speaker does. You could make a 8 inch speaker that moves 3/4 of an inch helping matters but the whole speaker is working harder and less effeciantly than the 12 inch speaker (on low freq.)

on the other hand a 8 inch speaker might have a lighter cone and because it is not moving as much air it is easier to it to cycle faster. less weight for it to get moving, less enurtia for it to stop on rebound, less drag from moving the air. it will accell at higher
frequencies than the 12. this is is why I brought up the crossover for the mains. With a crossover you are able to send a frequency range to the best speaker for the job. Why send 80hz (wich takes a lot of power to produce) to a speaker that can't produce it, or at least not well.

Well I doubt I am being any great help to you:(

Go for the twelves. they are much more well rounded as far as what the can produce well. For that reason I would also not recomend 15 inch monitors. Try out a couple sets of 12's if you can. Don't live and die by the adds. If you do order some hopefully the place will have a good return policy.

Good luck:)

f.s.
 
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