first ep...advice?

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dunderfront

dunderfront

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I play lead guitar in a punk band, dunderfront! (thus the username), and we're planning on recording our first ep this month. It'll most likely be 4 originals and 2 covers. Anyways, I'm really new to recording and could really use some help.
We're running on a very low budget, really the only money we have will be profits from t-shirts that we're selling. This will probably give us a total of $100-$200. We could probably throw in another $100 or so on top of that if needed, but we're just some high school kids so we can't really do too much more than that.
As far as equipment, we already have:
-1 Digitech RP350 Guitar Processor
-2 Peavy Vyper 15 watt amps (1 guitar, 1 bass)
-a few other small amps, not sure what the makes/models are but all are pretty similar to the Peavys
-Instruments
-1 Yamaha Silent Brass (we might have a trumpet part on one song)

We plan to use Audacity.
As far as the guitars go, we were planning on recording them onto my laptop via the RP350. I've tested it out a few times and it worked okay. We also could run them through the amp and into the laptop, but on some of our amps the outputs are limited to just an aux/headphone jack.
For vocals, we want to buy a microphone in the $100-$200 dollar price range. We've been looking at getting a Shure SM57. I've heard that this works well for snare and bass drum too. Would it work for cymbals at all? How would we go about that? I have thought about using MIDI drums instead, but the only program I have that could really do that is Sibelius, which is for composition and doesn't really have super realistic drums.
If we do the trumpet part on the one song, the Silent Brass has worked fine for me in the past.
Any and all advice would be great. We're not looking to have amazing recording quality, just something semi-decentish. Passable. We're doing this for fun. Thank you very much.

You can follow us on twitter or tumblr @dunderfront
 
You have an uphill slog facing you. Trying to get a decent recording with what you have is going to be problematic.

Were you planing to record everything all at once and on separate tracks?

Or were you going to record one instrument at a time, playing along to what has been recorded already?

How did you plan on getting the mike connected to laptop?

How did you plan on getting Silent Brass connected to laptop?

The method you choose to adopt for recording will have a bearing on what gear is needed.
 
Don't use Audacity, it is not meant for multi-track recording. Your RP350 came with a lite version of Cubase, use that instead. If you don't have it, look at Reaper.

You will have to get your mic signal into your computer somehow. I am pretty sure the RP350 does not have a mic input. You will need some kind of interface. That will eat up half your budget right there. If you choose to mic your drum kit, you will need an interface with as many inputs as you have mics. 4 is usually the lowest number to capture the drum kit nicely. So, an interface with 4 mic inputs, plus the 4 mics will put you over your budget. Cables, mic stands, etc.... more money.

You asked about the SM57, it is a workhorse, but I'm not sure how good it is for a kick mic or overheads. You should find special purpose mics for those tasks. And recording drums is a real art. There are some tutorials on this site to get you started, but experience will get you something good. Then the drums need to sound good. That in itself is another art. Good skins, properly tuned, well played.

If you're going to use the RP350, then you won't need the amps. If you want to use the amps, then you won't need the RP350. You can use the interface you need to buy and the SM57. I don't know how the Peavy vyper sounds, but you might get better tones from your RP350. Hint: don't use the presets.

To get something passable, you'll need more funds. Perhaps you can find someone who has the proper gear and is willing to cut you a deal on recording. Or maybe you can save up more money to buy the bare minimums.

The good thing, since you're in high school, you might have a nice recording space. Check out the band hall or the performing arts stage. Both places can probably offer a decent room to record in. Better than your bedroom or your basement. Maybe you can schedule time to use one or the other when they aren't in use.
 
After doing some more research online, we decided to go with a large diaphragm condenser mic instead of the SM57, mostly because the best techniques that I found online for recording drums with one mic involved large diaphragm condensers. We're either going to go with a AKG P120 or a Behringer B1, because they're both around the same price as the SM57. I really like what I've heard of the B1's sound. For an interface, we're either getting a Focusrite Scarlett (solo or 2i2) or a Behringer U-Phoria UM2. Probably the later. Both come with DAW's, I don't know that the RP350 still has Cubase since it was given to me used from a family friend several years ago. Other than that, we just need to pick up a mic stand w/ a boom and an XLR cable, and maybe a pop filter but I've been told you can make homemade ones that work just as well. Anyways, all this brings our total cost to around $170-$230. We can handle that with profits from the shirts we're selling. Our bassist has an area in his basement with some sound paneling, if we build a makeshift "wall" to cover the open end of the room we think it'll work decently enough. We'll experiment with a few different mic placements for the drums, I've been seeing a lot of stuff on youtube that seemingly works well. Guitars will still run through the RP350, we'll probably use the Vyper for the bass though. Now I have to figure out mixing, so it's back to internet research for my. Thank you for the advice.
 
If you're going for a true ol' school punk sound (like 1980's punk), I think that's possible with a single mic on the kit and the gear you have.

However, I'd definitely go with the 57 over the LDC. If the 57 has one thing going for it (and it has much more), it's that it is the sound of rock and roll.

Take your time. Experiment. A lot. Use as many takes as you need to get the sound you want up front. Forget about all the 'fix it in the mix' BS. Play, record, listen back, adjust mic placement, adjust guitar tones, drum tuning, etc., etc, etc. Lather, rinse, repeat until it doesn't suck (or at least until it sucks in a manner that fits your band's aesthetic :listeningmusic: ).

Who knows, you may even be able to find a sound balance and mic placement that can capture everything, everyone playing together. People did it that way years ago with much more larger and more complex ensembles.
 
With your budget and talk of one mic, I'm wondering if you intend to record kick, snare, cymbals etc separately?
 
On a seperate issue, skip the covers.

Since you're selling t shirts, I'm assuming you'll be selling the ep.

Doing covers could get you in trouble. Chances are slim that someone will come after you, but they could if you are recording and distributing copyrighted material.

Besides, on your budget, you're gonna have your hands full just recording the 4 songs.

Good luck on your project.
 
If you're going to be stuck w/Audacity, and if you're planning on doing a single track at a time, be sure to use that software's ability to generate a click track. Let it click in a bar or 2 on every take. That's really the only way to be sure each separate track is in sync w/all the other tracks.
 
Don't get any of the interfaces you mentioned, instead go for the Steinberg UR22. Same price as the 2i2 but comes with Cubase. It also has MIDI ports which you may find interesting* .

I agree that a 57 is probably a better choice than the LDC but there are much cheaper dynamic mics around now. Prodipe are well thought of at 1/2 the price of the Shure and TWO mics will be vastly more flexible than one. You could even make or buy a stereo bar and record the band in stereo using the "Co-Incident" technique (Google it).

Since you are skint LEARN TO SOLDER or at least cultivate a sciencey geek to help you making cables.

*I bought my son a very cheap Yamaha MIDI "Portasound" keyboard years ago. This plugs into MIDI ports and allowed him to play software instruments in the PC. The kbd also had 8 assignable pads on the front and so they could be smacked for percussion sounds.

Dave.
 
We're shooting for more of a modern punk/alternative sound. Something similar to Say Anything, Modern Baseball, or Fall Out Boy (their first couple albums, not their new style). As much as I love the rock n roll sound of the SM57, I'm leaning more towards an LDC because the drums sound much cleaner on it. I'm interested as to what your other reasons for choosing the SM57 over the LDC would be, I've only recently been researching recording and mic stuff so obviously there's a lot I don't know.
 
We're going to try and record the whole kit at once, I can't imagine recording it separately would be anything but a mess lol
 
We aren't really looking to make a profit, the shirts are just to fund the recording. But thank you for the advice, I hadn't thought of that. I might look into licensing and stuff and figure out if it'd cost us too much to do at least one of the ones we had planned.
 
In all honestly we don't really need a 2-input interface. I know they're much more useful but seeing as we'll only have 1 microphone, there's no point in spending the extra $$$. The u-phoria fits our budget well and is really all we need, and it comes with Tracktion 6 (thank god, I already hate Audacity).
 
1) no
2) yeah that
3) I now know that we'll have to buy an interface
4) It can connect via the line-in (aux) on my laptop
 
dunderfront said:
3) I now know that we'll have to buy an interface
4) It can connect via the line-in (aux) on my laptop
Click to expand...

When using the interface you don't use the onboard sound card. All the inputs and outputs for recording go through the interface which had its own connection to the computer, usually by USB.

Thinking you only need one input is like thinking you only need one seat in your car.
 
dunderfront said:
We aren't really looking to make a profit, the shirts are just to fund the recording. But thank you for the advice, I hadn't thought of that. I might look into licensing and stuff and figure out if it'd cost us too much to do at least one of the ones we had planned.
Click to expand...

Licensing covers has nothing to do with profits, or revenue, or whether you are charging money or not. If you cover someone else's work, you have to license it. Legally. If you don't, don't be surprised if no one does anything about it.

Also, when replying, use the Reply with Quote button so we know who you are talking to.
 
To clean up the licensing issues, why don't you just release the originals, that way you can spend more time on them and get them sounding good. Do your fans really need to hear cover songs if they are interested in your band?

I know the budget is low, but is there a reasonably priced studio in your area that can track the drums for you? Then you only have to worry about recording the bass, guitars and vocals at home? If you do go this way I would track bass & guitars live with the drums anyway just in case you nail it then it's done.

I do a lot of work like that in my town where guys with home studios find it hard to get a good drum sound and don't have the mics or inputs to do a good recording.

Alan.
 
Having grown up in rehearsal rooms I think you might be better served looking at an old Akai DPS12 and 6 of the cheapest dynamic mics you can get your hands on.
 
You didn't mention what distribution medium you are planning for. Is it going to be CD (pressed, small run), burn-at-home CD-R, e-distribution (itunes, bandcamp) or streaming (spotify etc)?

You need to develop a proper budget before starting, or you may find yourself allocating the wrong funds to the wrong things. That means listing each and every expense item and allocating an amount to it. That includes funds for manufacturing the finished product if it is physical.

It can be done on a very tight budget, however you may wish to see if you can score any favours. Do you know anyone who might have a good room to record in? Or maybe someone who has a load of recording gear who could lay the tracks down for you? Also a good mixing guy and mixing room to get the best out of the recording (this will be important as I suspect there will be a lot of things to work on in the mix to make it record-sounding)? And, of course, anyone who can master the tracks for delivery to the final medium (and who knows about creating the appropriate package for a CD replicator is you go that way)? The more favours you can work, the more your budget will stretch.
 
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