"final" mix too quiet

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thelockhorns

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Hey Gang,

I'll try and make this quick.

Have finally finished recording, mixing down first CD. Very happy with results, songs fit well together, well balanced.

Put CD into 5-disc changer, mine is considerably quieter than commercial CDs.

I've recorded things hot, not distorted throughout process. Good signal to noise. Also stayed away from anything fancy in signal path, maybe too far away.

Equipment:

Tascam 688 to Tascam DAT to Cheap CD burner.

No Compression, levels look good and disc sounds consistant by itself. I just want it to sound better side by side with other discs.

I know I'm living in the stone age compared to most of you guys and gals but any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
 
hiya.

do a search of the forum and you'll find a fucking library of information on this subject.

my understanding of it is as follows:

a) you'll never get a commercially-hot CD unless you've got a lot of expensive equipment.

b) you don't really need a commercially-hot CD unless you're going to distribute it comercially.

c) i have a boner for the phrase "commercially-hot."

good luck.
 
You need to compress and/or limit to raise the RMS (average sound level).
 
cat-eggs said:
hiya.

do a search of the forum and you'll find a fucking library of information on this subject.

my understanding of it is as follows:

a) you'll never get a commercially-hot CD unless you've got a lot of expensive equipment.

b) you don't really need a commercially-hot CD unless you're going to distribute it comercially.

c) i have a boner for the phrase "commercially-hot."

good luck.
Click to expand...

i disagree u can get ur CD as loud as commercial CD now will ur CD sound as good being loud as a commercial CD is another question

what i use to make tracks loud are PSP Vintage Warmer(Compressor) and Waves L2(limiter)
 
Brickwall limiting will get your CD sounding as loud as commercial CDs.
 
the waves L1 Ultramaximizer plugin does this really well..........my stuff almost gets too loud
 
call me old fashioned, but i prefer a good sounding track over a loud one.
 
The L1 Ultramaximizer notwithstanding, you can still mix your track louder...

Compression will do the trick; but not by compressing the final stereo mix... compress the most dynamic (loud to soft) tracks for gain reduction, and adjust your levels accordingly...

If it's still not "loud" enough for you, look at the individual tracks in a spectral analyzer, as well as the final mix. Look for holes, or dips in the spectrum. Fill these gaps with instruments that naturally take up those places in the spectrum.

Multiband compression may also be an option... if there are "spikes" in the spectrum on the final stereo mix, dial them in and compress them down... then, normalize afterward.

All this considered, it's entirely possible (and it happens every day) to create a very loud mix with only good tracking and level adjustments. You should never have to "normalize" to get a loud mix.


Chad
 
High participant!

No doubt that you can get a mix much louder when you use proper compression on the single tracks. Very often, this is the soulution that people don't use, as the hope for the magic wanf afterwards... But you do not mention (though you surely know) that the result is TOTALLY different than using strong overall compression.

If you compress the single tracks, they get rather constant in volume. The tracks usually get much easier to control as the peaks don't peak out and the low parts don't get lost in the mix.

If you compress the sum, you get the completely opposite effect. You will always have the loudest track at a time being the same volume (well not exactly, but it kinda explains my thought). So you may indeed have the feeling of lots of dynamics as instruments get very low compared to the overall volume when their source tracks get a little lower.

I will try to explain this with an example: record a wet track with a voice and some reverb on it. Now compress this to f**k. You'll hear a 'ducking verb' that will only appear in the pauses between the singing...

Hope I could help

aXel
 
volltreffer said:
If you compress the sum, you get the completely opposite effect. You will always have the loudest track at a time being the same volume (well not exactly, but it kinda explains my thought). So you may indeed have the feeling of lots of dynamics as instruments get very low compared to the overall volume when their source tracks get a little lower.

I will try to explain this with an example: record a wet track with a voice and some reverb on it. Now compress this to f**k. You'll hear a 'ducking verb' that will only appear in the pauses between the singing...
Click to expand...

Yeah. I hear so many bad tracks on places like Garageband.com, many of them because people compress the stereo mix. People don't seem to understand that the loud parts will sound like they're DUCKING, compared to the quiet parts. All that type of compression does is crush the peaks, and it has the opposite of the intended effect.


Chad
 
what do you guys think of a touch of compression to the stereo mix? i've been using Timeworks Compressor and using the Masterng Compression as a final touch.....it is pretty light, do you think this is a good or bad idea?
 
powderfinger said:
what do you guys think of a touch of compression to the stereo mix? i've been using Timeworks Compressor and using the Masterng Compression as a final touch.....it is pretty light, do you think this is a good or bad idea?
Click to expand...

I have been using a little bit of compression (in Cubase master FX) on the final mix, like 1.8:1 or so

Scott
 
If a client insists on a "louder" mix, I just run the whole thing through Waves L2 Ultramaximizer. Used judiciously, it can be pretty transparent. Used not so judiciously it can make any mix as loud as anyone could ever want, of course with the penalty of reducing the dynamic range of the song.

But if you have to make mixes louder, it seems to work as well or better than anything else I've tried.
 
One thing you could try is to put your final mix on a stereo subgroup instead of your main out, bring it up to normal meter readings, route it down to your master.
Feed the sub insert/or DI out, to a good compressor and bring the return back on another sub. Limit yor second mix to get a real pumping overcompressed sound.
Bring down your first sub mix appr 6db and then blend in the compressed mix to get the level on yopur main back to normal.
This will normally beef up your level...but still keeping the ambience and stereo from the uncompressed mix.

Don't listen to it too long or during the mix... your ears will lose control over the blend.... use it as a final trick...

good luck
 
I HAD THIS SAME PROBLEM

I used Ozone, and it boosted my volume, without adding any distortion. I could also tweak my EQ for the extra punch/clarity if I wanted...but didn't have to. I could just 'amplify' it if I wanted. Check it out. It is a wicked program. It didn't take me long to learn the program, and I am still no master at it, but I sure can get by. Hope this is your answer....it was mine.
 
I'll master it as loud as commercial cds. People always say it will never be as loud as a commercial CD. That's BS. It'll never sound AS GOOD as a commercial CD, but loudness (without too much deterioration) can be achieved. I know this, I've done it.

One more thing, is there a real reason why you are recording to DAT and then CDR?
 
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