fender amps? bassmans, twins, etc.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Phosphene
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Phosphene

Phosphene

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I only have one guitar amp, Boogie Mark IIC+, and I'm looking towards getting a Fender. I've been looking at the Bassman, Bandmaster, Showmaster, Tremoverb, Twin, Princeton...etc... Someone told me that buying the head versions of these was not as good as getting the whole combo because they don't have as big of power transformers, therefore they don't have as tight of a bottom end? Don't know if this is true. I already have a 2X12 cabinet, so really the speakers aren't a must, unless the combos ALWAYS sound better than the heads...

I'm looking for good clean tone, something with a higher wattage I suppose. I just don't have the means to play on them all and narrow down my search. I have done some research and it seems alot like the Bassmans for guitar. I have a Les Paul Studio and a SG 90.

I just want to know the pros and cons of the different models. Can someone point me in the right direction?
 
Let me add: Im using this mostly for studio work...

I just read that Princetons are good studio amps? :eek:
 
The bassmans sound great, but you have to crank them up to get a good tone. They also only have one channel.
 
If it matters, my 2x12 is an Avatar and it has a Celestion Vintage 30 and a G12H.

I thought a Bassman has vibrato.
 
The quintessential Fender combo for studio work has got to be the Blackface Deluxe Reverb or Vibrolux. I would think that you could trade that Mark II C+ about straight up. That being said, I would love to trade one of my Tweed Blues Devilles for that MK.
 
Last night a buddy brought over a '68 Princeton silver face to my band's jam room. It had the original tubes in it!! It looked old but in good condition. He paid $500 but I think you could probably get one for less on Ebay if you watch them.

Anyway, sound-wise... it sounded like classic Fender clean tone to me. I was running an American Strat into it and it sounded great and was *just* loud enough to compete with the drummer. When the volume was cranked on the amp it would get a little crappy sounding-- I don't know if that's normal for Princetons. I suspect a new speaker and new tubes would probably help if not cure that problem. It would get a little dirty when the volume was around 7 or 8 or above but that could easily get cleaned up by rolling off the guitar volume a little bit.

I've never been really into Fender amps so I can't tell you the difference between a Twin or Princeton or whatever... but I can say that it was just a really nice clean tone. I would love to have that amp and I can totally see it being a great little studio amp.
 
The twin reverb is the king of clean amps (for Fender at least). You can crank them all they way up, and they are still basically clean...but for most too loud at this point. Great for steel guitar, etc..

The Bandmaster is a so so amp, and the bassman is usually preferred for guitar for a nice breakup and saturation when overdriven. The Bandmaster is kinda ...eh... the Dual Showmans are just louder versions of the Bandmaster.

As stated before, the Deluxe Reverb is the most popular combo amp and can generally hold up in a small club setting with an average volume drummer. It also breaks up nicely when pushed, like the Bassman, but has a nice spring reverb with it too. The Princeton Reverb is a smaller version...so to speak.

Stuff like the Super Reverbs, Vibrolux..are kinda variations of the Fender sound, partly because of the speaker setup and stuff like that. All typical Fender sound, but just different colors.

The lil Champ amp is like a tiny Bassman head with a dinky speaker. It rocks too for recording.

All the solid state Fender stuff out now is just newer stuff trying to stay in the game with all the solid state amps with all the bells and whistles, but still stay Fender at the same time. I'd pass on them in general, but they aren't bad amps either.

For clean, you want the twin... for bluesy stuff, classic rock...you want the deluxe...for a harp, get the Super Reverb.

The reissues IMO aren't all that bad either. A Fender purist will most certainly disagree, but the new Deluxe Reverbs are nice sounding. I'd get one, but don't want to spend $800 for just that one flavor.

Hope this rambling helps. :)
 
I have a Dual Showman head and a Twin, both red knob and although the Dual is supposed to be 135 watts, I reckon it's the same as the twin in a different box. They sound identical, really loud, clean all the way up to as much as I can stand to be near them.
 
I've been a Fender amp fan for years, owned several and played through most of the rest. My all time favorite has to be the Twin (4X10 cab) although it's heavy and a pain to lug around. For a clean crisp classic Fender sound the Twin is likely to be what you are looking for. In the studio I mostly use a Fender Princeton Chorus. It's a lot smaller (mine is an old one, 65 watts, 2X10) but still has that "Fender sound" on the clean chanel, the gain chanel is a little grainy and thin sounding. This part is just opinion but, I prefer the sound of guitars with single coil pups through Fenders more than the sound of humbuckers through Fenders. I can't quite nail what it is but Fender amps just give single coils a little extra something which makes them really sound their best.
 
I have one of the new CVRs. It's quite an evil, gainy little thing, breaking up at around three on the volume dial - but I adore it!
 
Sorry, whats a CVR?

I see Delux Reverb REISSUES going for around $600 on ebay. How much different do they sound from the original?

The Princeton is kinda looking good too. Relatively inexpensive, clean and dirty, effects.....
 
Phosphene said:
Can the Blues Deluxe (is that the right model?) or the Blues DeVille achieve good clean tones as well?
Click to expand...

These two amps are modeled on the '59 bassman and have about as much clean headroom at 60 watts as you can stand. Different tubes and mods can change this amp dramatically. The real difference is channel switching. One has two channels and the other has three.

I own both, but never use anything but channel one. The other gain channels are too fizzy for me. These amps are available is 4x10 and 2x12, have a really tight bottom, fx loop, and take pedals very well.
 
Phosphene said:
I've been looking at the Bassman, Bandmaster, Showmaster, Tremoverb, Twin, Princeton...etc... Someone told me that buying the head versions of these was not as good as getting the whole combo because they don't have as big of power transformers, therefore they don't have as tight of a bottom end?
Click to expand...

Incorrect information about transformers. Any differences in power transformers OR output transformers - which MIGHT have an effect on bottom end - would be due to variations in circuitry and model. Any advantage of the combo amps would be the presence of reverb and/or tremolo.

One way to categorize Fender amps is according to output tubes:

4 6L6/5881 - Twin Reverb, Showman, Dual Showman, Bassman 100, Bassman 135. For guitar, these Bassmans are no good. The Twin Reverb is the top of the line for guitars. The Showmans are good but don't have Reverb.

2 6L6/5881 - Bassman, Pro Reverb, Super Reverb, Bandmaster, Vibrolux. The Bassman and Pro Reverb had solid-state rectifiers, where the Super Reverb and Bandmaster had tube rectifiers. The Super Reverb is a great guitar amp.

The Deluxe Reverb has two 6V6 tubes. Princeton and Champs likewise have smaller tubes and less power.
 
Exactly what "stuff" did CBS add to the Silverfaces that "sucks the tone" as I've seen it put. I mean...when people want to take their amps back to blackface, what parts are they adding or changing, and how did it effect the tone?

I'm gettin a good edjumacation in this thread so far. I thank you all who have replied!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
AGCurry said:
Incorrect information about transformers. Any differences in power transformers OR output transformers - which MIGHT have an effect on bottom end - would be due to variations in circuitry and model. Any advantage of the combo amps would be the presence of reverb and/or tremolo.

4 6L6/5881 - Twin Reverb, Showman, Dual Showman, Bassman 100, Bassman 135. For guitar, these Bassmans are no good. The Twin Reverb is the top of the line for guitars. The Showmans are good but don't have Reverb.

2 6L6/5881 - Bassman, Pro Reverb, Super Reverb, Bandmaster, Vibrolux. The Bassman and Pro Reverb had solid-state rectifiers, where the Super Reverb and Bandmaster had tube rectifiers. The Super Reverb is a great guitar amp.
Click to expand...


You can't get reverb or Vibrato with the head versions?

Why are the4 6L6 Bassmans not as good? They achieve no breakup?

When I started this thread, I thought I wanted just a clean Fender, but now that I think of it, I'd like a clean amp, that when pushed, would get nice saturation. But at recording levels....I don't want to have to blow the top off my house and wake the neighbors to do that. Also, reverb and Vibrato are things I think I want too. So, it looks like my choices now are:

Deluxe Reverb
Super Reverb
Blues DeVille
 
Phosphene said:
You can't get reverb or Vibrato with the head versions?

Why are the4 6L6 Bassmans not as good? They achieve no breakup?

When I started this thread, I thought I wanted just a clean Fender, but now that I think of it, I'd like a clean amp, that when pushed, would get nice saturation. But at recording levels....I don't want to have to blow the top off my house and wake the neighbors to do that. Also, reverb and Vibrato are things I think I want too. So, it looks like my choices now are:

Deluxe Reverb
Super Reverb
Blues DeVille
Click to expand...

i think you would be happy with a deluxe. it's like a smaller twin. imo, you can't beat a good twin but a deluxe is works well if you need something with less volume. i don't really like the new fender stuff. check out some early 70's / earlier amps.
 
Check out a Rivera. It's a Fender on steroids and it's made in the US of A.
 
I gained access to a 60's Deluxe Reverb BF tonight and fooled around with it. So this thing is 22W? I never realized how loud 22W could be. It did break up, but at pretty high volumes. I can't imagine what a Twin sounds like cranked all the way up. So anyway, maybe I want something with even less wattage....or I'll just settle on a Blues Deluxe or Blues Deville (and then there's the HotRod version of both)....not sure what you gain or lose with that.

To those of you who have responded, thanks. I'm getting closer to making a choice.

Princetons still look good too.
 
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