Fade Out?

[mjbphotos]

Wasn't sure if this was the best part of the forum to post this, but since I only apply fade outs to songs after the mixing is done ....

About half of my recorded songs don't have final 'abrupt' endings, but continue on, and I use a fade out.
Is there any 'preferred' fade out method? Is a curved (slow start, rapid finish) best? A 2-point slope? How long - whatever sounds best for that song, or the same for every song on an 'album''? I've usually just done a straight volume fade, at some point (1/3 original volume), the sound gets faint enough that it might as well have faded to nothing at this point.

 

[Massive Master]

"Whatever sounds best" -- I'd have to submit that I probably use a cosinusoidal (a backwards "S" that starts slowly and gains after the midpoint) more than anything -- It slowly gets things down to the point where you really notice it's going out, then sort of quickly dispatches the rest.

But linear works well on a lot of stuff too...

 

[Greg_L]

 

[Farview]

I use the S shaped curve as well. I also make sure that the song ends on the end of a phrase, or at least the end of a measure.

 

[miroslav]

"Whatever sounds best"

Yeah...depends on the song, the type of tracks, how they are interact with different kinds of fades.
There's a half-dozen types in my DAW...I'll start off with Linear as the default, which works fine on most individual tracks, though not always...but for the end of the mix, when I'm doing it in the DAW, it's trial-n-error, since usually one will sound best. Most times though I'm mixing out from the DAW through the console, so at that point it's a manual fade, and go by ear and feel.

 

[Capt Hair]

Not trying to hijack, but do any of ya'll have issues with compression when doing fades? My songs always sound weird at the end because once the track drops below the set threshold things start to fall apart a little, and at least to me is always noticeable on the drums. Any way to really cope with this? I guess I could automate the compressor on the master as well to match the fade out? really haven't tried that yet. Any thoughts?

 

[RAMI]

Not trying to hijack, but do any of ya'll have issues with compression when doing fades? My songs always sound weird at the end because once the track drops below the set threshold things start to fall apart a little, and at least to me is always noticeable on the drums. Any way to really cope with this? I guess I could automate the compressor on the master as well to match the fade out? really haven't tried that yet. Any thoughts?

I'm guessing the best way to remedy this is to render your file BEFORE applying the fade-out, then doing a final render of the already compressed track with your fade-out?

 

[Greg_L]

Not trying to hijack, but do any of ya'll have issues with compression when doing fades? My songs always sound weird at the end because once the track drops below the set threshold things start to fall apart a little, and at least to me is always noticeable on the drums. Any way to really cope with this? I guess I could automate the compressor on the master as well to match the fade out? really haven't tried that yet. Any thoughts?

I've noticed that happen, but I don't worry about it. I don't compress so hard that it gets weird.

 

[Capt Hair]

I'm guessing the best way to remedy this is to render your file BEFORE applying the fade-out, then doing a final render of the already compressed track with your fade-out?

Simple enough, thanks!

That just means, fade outs would literally be the last thing you would do in the process? We had a mastering engineer, Dave Harris, from studio B up in Charlotte this past week in one of my classes and kind of touched on hating to get final mixes with fades, just never really put two and two together lol. Never got around to asking though if he would just ask for another file of the mix without a fade or if there was some way of working around it if for some reason you couldn't get a non-faded mix?

Not really a big deal on short/fast fades, but anything after a couple of seconds you can definitely notice.

 

[Massive Master]

(That's why fades are usually handled during the mastering phase)

 

[Greg_L]

I only do fades to my stereo mix in "mastering".

 

[ido1957]

ALT + P + F + O in Sound Forge

 

[RAMI]

(That's why fades are usually handled during the mastering phase)

I only do fades to my stereo mix in "mastering".

Yeah, me too, but I'm not sure how that would avoid the problem Capt. Hair is describing. I think even Capt. Hair does his fades during the mastering stage, but still encounters the problem he's describing because his compressor/limiter is reacting to the fade out.

 

[miroslav]

So...where's the comp in the chain?

Wouldn't you be fading the final output...after everything....including the comp...???

 

[RAMI]

So...where's the comp in the chain?

Wouldn't you be fading the final output...after everything....including the comp...???

I'm assuming he's drawing the fade into his finished mix and then adding compression, etc...and then rendering the file, which is probably why he's having a problem when the level starts hovering around the threshold of the compressor.

That's why I suggested rendering first with compression, and no fade, and then rendering that file with the fade and no compression.

 

[Capt Hair]

I'm assuming he's drawing the fade into his finished mix and then adding compression, etc...and then rendering the file, which is probably why he's having a problem when the level starts hovering around the threshold of the compressor.

That's why I suggested rendering first with compression, and no fade, and then rendering that file with the fade and no compression.

Yep, that's what I was doing .

I was also just wondering, from a more "professional" stand point, if you got a mix from a client to master, and they had put a fade on the final mix with out knowing that could be bad, is it best to just to try to get a mix resent that has no fade or is there a way of working around it (time's money, what if they couldn't get you a copy with no fade for another day)??? But I guess I kind of answered my own question earlier, because you could simply automate the compression in the box if you were using a plug to work that out. Would there be a better way to do this?