Equipment VS Technique!!! Everyone Should Read

[BBad199]

I want this thread to throw out all subjectivity. Concentrate on the meat and potatoes of your favorite recordings.

I completely do not agree with the importance that some of the audiophiles on this forum place on the equipment or tools used to record music at home. This is your chance to voice your opinion.

Given that the recorded material (regardless of style) is:
1. Well written
2. Well performed
3. Played on instruments that originate the sounds desired in the end result.




Here's what I think. I'm spliting this up into two sections...the MUST HAVES and the COSMETIC MAKEUP.


MUST HAVES
1. A quality recording environment that is capable of yeilding the desired results.
2. Mic placement that is capable of yeilding the desired results.
3. The right number and types of mics and inputs to complete the recording that is capable of yeilding the desired results.
4. A mix that translates well because it was completed by a professional who properly mixed all the recorded material in the proper mixing enviroment.


COSMENTIC MAKEUP
1. Exotic mics, pres, cables, converters, effects, mastering, and tools can all be replaced by effective alternatives that complete the same job. I bet only 1 in 10 people on this forum can actually use preference items to turn a great recording into an excellent one. Of course you get what you pay for, that is not the argument, but VALUE is the key. There are too many of us on these forums that ask ourselves, "Where can I get the greatest return on professional quality for my next dollar spent?" and just don't know where to start looking for answers.

Am I noticing a trend that doesn't exist or is marketing these days really not screwing people into thinking they need every piece of gear in the world to make good recordings?

 

[LeeRosario]

or is marketing these days really not screwing people into thinking they need every piece of gear in the world to make good recordings?

I'm not particularly into what the marketing people do. I'm more into people just taking to the time to learn what's right and wrong for themselves personally.


At least half of those "cosmetic" items you mention have very real and valuable uses in music production. You just gotta understand how to use them effectively.

 

[fraserhutch]

Ah, shit here we go again.

Captain Obvious reporting in.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

You just gotta understand how to use them effectively.

Which is just one way of saying that technique trumps equipment. It's been said many other ways, including:

"A quality engineer with a 57 and a Soundblaster can produce a better recording than a rookie with a Neumann and a Neve."

"If you can't make a hit record with a Tascam Portastudio, you can't make one with a million dollar studio, either."

"Put an average driver behind the wheel of a Formula One race car, and you'll wind up with little more than a car crash."

This doesn't mean that quality gear is not important. It just means, as Lee said above, you gotta know what you're doing first before the advantage of quality gear really matters and before you really get what you pay for.

The engineer makes the gear, the gear does not make the engineer.

I'd go even further and say that the worse the gear one starts out on, the better the engineer one will turn out to be. Nothing will build skills like learning how to depend upn one's skills to get past the surface limitations of the gear. Nobody will ever be able to take those skills away from them, and they can take and use those skills to push any gear, regardless of quality. OTOH, put somebody in nothing but a million-dollar studio, and they will be come dependant upon their equipment to do half the job for them. Take any part of that gear away and their dependancy becomes a weakness.

G.

 

[CoolCat]

Cosmetic fluff...

Sales & Marketing hyping Boutique, high dollar stuff?...what are you saying?
they'd lie and sell us things the human ear can't even comprehend per physics...??
they wouldn't? would they? surely your not insinuating they would make up...? this can't be? but are you telling me...that the new $8,950 Fender RELIC isn't real..??and the Fender tennis shoe line doesn't WALK THE ROCK...but? but...!!!
and..and... that Gold Plated MONSTER speaker wire with .000ohms resistance for $450 isn't better than the 2cent lamp cord???!! !!!
what?!! your saying it all doesn't matter???


I read an article on 1080i and 1080p...the big "new" techrabbit to catch..
but the material for this won't be commonplace for 5-7years.
and who cares if the show sucks or has 1,000 commercials in it.

 

[BBad199]

I'm just tired of reading worthless threads looking for decent information about products. This forum is full of worthless fights and questions which really don't make sense. 50% of the posts aren't even on topic. I've been reading this forum for 3 years and it is slowly degrading in the ratio of knowledgeable people. I don't post because I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to offer much more than opinion most of the time.

This thread was spawned from a post I was reading on a kid on a budget who was asking everyone if he should by an avalon pre. I just got fed up. Somebody needs make a primer on the proper weights to apply to the independent variables in the recording equation.

 

[LeeRosario]

This forum is full of worthless fights and questions which really don't make sense.

.

you mean like this thread?

 

[ndycus1]

I don't think that anyone has ever argued that high-quality gear can make some who has no talent sound good. That's not the point.

The point IS.....for those who actually know what they're doing, high-quality gear WILL be able to yield much higher-quality results than worse gear.

What you said is obvious. What I said is obvious. If the kid wants an Avalon, let him get an Avalon. If he ends up taking recording seriously and learns how to use the tools he has, he'll one day be very glad he got an Avalon instead of wasting his money on a Behringer that he is going to get rid of and upgrade once he decides that he wants to take recording seriously.

 

[Nick The Man]

Which is just one way of saying that technique trumps equipment. It's been said many other ways, including:

"A quality engineer with a 57 and a Soundblaster can produce a better recording than a rookie with a Neumann and a Neve."

"If you can't make a hit record with a Tascam Portastudio, you can't make one with a million dollar studio, either."

"Put an average driver behind the wheel of a Formula One race car, and you'll wind up with little more than a car crash."

This doesn't mean that quality gear is not important. It just means, as Lee said above, you gotta know what you're doing first before the advantage of quality gear really matters and before you really get what you pay for.

The engineer makes the gear, the gear does not make the engineer.

I'd go even further and say that the worse the gear one starts out on, the better the engineer one will turn out to be. Nothing will build skills like learning how to depend upn one's skills to get past the surface limitations of the gear. Nobody will ever be able to take those skills away from them, and they can take and use those skills to push any gear, regardless of quality. OTOH, put somebody in nothing but a million-dollar studio, and they will be come dependant upon their equipment to do half the job for them. Take any part of that gear away and their dependancy becomes a weakness.

G.

Very well put!

 

[Micter]

I have to agree with Glen's logic. I started out with a Fostex DMT8 and a couple of cheap mics. Some of the stuff I recorded on that gear would shock you. I have nothing really in the boutique line of gear in my studio now. I have not one mic that is in the >$500 area but I can yeild very good recordings using the equipment I have currently. I do have some decent mics AT 4033, Shure SM7, GT55, a modded Carvin CTM100, etc. No Neumans, No Blues, nothing expensive! I have a few low mid level pres. A GT Brick, a Focusright trackmaster pro, and an ART DPSii. Nothing special! But I can lay down very convincing tracks with a lot of work in finding the right mic for the job, and putting it in the right place. It's all in the ear as far as I'm concerned. You don't need Neumans and Neves in a home studio to do good work. Do I wish I had Neumans and Neves? Heck ya! I just can't justify spending that much money right now. I do plan on a mic pre purchase here really soon but that's another story.

 

[Robert D]

A wise man once said "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had." .......wait a minute, that guy was an idiot.

Buy the best gear you can afford and use it the best you can. It's that simple, I think.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

A wise man once said "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had." .......wait a minute, that guy was an idiot.

I agree on the idiot part . However, look at that war as an example of how gear plays only a secondary roll. With all the stealth aircraft, UAVs, M1 tanks, IR helmet vision and digital battlefield networking at our disposal - the lack of armored humvees at the begining notwithstanding - we have the best-equipped army on the planet. None of that gear has even come close to winning the war for us. We have been, at best, stalemated, and at worst, strategically defeated by a few thousand insurgents with a few 80s-vinatge shaped-charged bombs and some '70's-vinatge RPGs. We have 10 times the troops, 10 times the technology, and 100 times the money, and we have not won a damn thing because we have been out-techniqued by a relatively rag-tag bunch of very clever people who know how to make the most out of the tools they have.

Buy the best gear you can afford and use it the best you can. It's that simple, I think.

Definitely true if one already knows the technique for getting the most out of it. But it is part of human nature, in my observation, that if the tools come to us before we learn the technique, we tend to rely upon the tools to do the work for us and tend to slack on the technique end of it. Sure there are those who will push the technique no matter what the level of tool, but I have so far found those of that high of a caliber to be unfortunately few and far between.

Necessity is the mother of invention. If one feels satisfied with their gear, they will not have the imputus to invent (learn) the creative techniques for pushing those tools.

IMHO and all that. Just taking a point, not arguing anything or at anyone .

G.

 

[Robert D]

Yes, we're fighting with SSL consoles and getting our ass kicked by ITMPs (improvised tube MP's).

I agree with you Glen that there is much to be learned by starting ones craft with limited tools, though I'm not so sure that starting with good tools is a bad thing. I think the AE that pushes to get the best sound out of a $100 preamp is going to push to get the best sound out of a $2500 preamp, because it his nature to do so, just as the wannabe AE who settles for whatever decent sound he stumbles on with the $2500 preamp would settle for whatever less decent sound he stumbles on with the $100 preamp. You could make the argument that he would just blame the cheap preamp on the poor sound and call it a day, but with the expensive preamp he would know the problem is himself, and would thus be driven to learn his craft for lack of a scapegoat.

 

[LeeRosario]

You could make the argument that he would just blame the cheap preamp on the poor sound and call it a day, but with the expensive preamp he would know the problem is himself, and would thus be driven to learn his craft for lack of a scapegoat.

wow, good point man. Never saw it that way

 

[on3wingangel]

This place has helped me alot. I mean there are things you kinda have to figure out for yourself. But this place is great for pointers and little secrets. this is home recording not pro stuff we are here to learn..atleast I am. I dont see what the big deal is everyone learns different you said there are pointless threads but if it can help one person isnt it worth it? u gotta have fun too i dont think anyone here was in this for the money. I get what you were saying about some of the people here thinking "this works for me and its going to work for you too." I guess people think like this "industry standard blah blah blah..That means i can make an industry standard recording with it." There are way to many more aspects to a recording than just mic and mic placement. It wont have the same voice without certain mics. I guess those little mics have a voice of their own. (more than just eq) Cant record a viola and eq it to sound like a guitar. I guess I'm too much of a stereotypical male...no instruction manual for me.

 

[travelin travis]

wow, good point man. Never saw it that way

nah, then he would blame the mic or converter or compressor or.......................

i'll put it this way............visit the mp3 clinic for an hour and then ask yourself if the majority of the problems in those recordings are caused by using cheap gear or something else.

while your at it, visit soundclick, myspace, nowwhereradio, etc.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I think the AE that pushes to get the best sound out of a $100 preamp is going to push to get the best sound out of a $2500 preamp, because it his nature to do so, just as the wannabe AE who settles for whatever decent sound he stumbles on with the $2500 preamp would settle for whatever less decent sound he stumbles on with the $100 preamp.

You do make a good point Rob. And sure, if given a choice between recommending a Neve and a Behrrie (all else being equal), I'd recommend the Neve.

I just can't get past the vast majority of times in person and on the Internet when a rookie with unprepared ears and an empty technique tookit has thought that equipment or specific settings were the answer. When I see questions like "Waves vs. UAD?", "Which MBC preset should I use?", and "How should I EQ this mix?", it's more often than not evident that the questioner is not even prepared to know *how* use the gear they are they are asking about. In fact they are more often than not asking these questions because they have already made basic mistakes in fundamental technique with lesser or mre basic gear that they are supposed to already know how to use. It woul dbe like a soldier asking how to run and fire an M1 tank before they have learned the basic techniques of battlefield awareness, chain of command, etc.

But to give my POV on this another spin, and one that is based upon heavy personal experience, let me relate a story. Mu career has had parallel tracks, Besides being an A/V engineer, I am also a software engineer (yes, on the pro level on both counts, both for about the same amount of time.) Back in '79 when all we had to program on were TRS-80s with 16K or RAM and a very (by today's standards) stunted version of the BASIC programming language. The different tricks we had to invent in order to fit some pretty sophisticated programming into a very small box were, if I may say so myself, quite ingenious (I can say that because the MOST ingenious tricks were invented by someone else, not me ). Having to synthesize multi-dimensional array manipulation with a language that only understood single-dimension arrays, and then having to optimize that code to fit into the remaining 4K or memory, etc. This kind of forced necessity turned us into very high-quality programmers.

When I look that the average program code and average programmer that the system churns out today, it either makes me chickle or groan (depending upon my mood that day .) Things like bandwidth and memory utilization are so damn sloppy now and there is so much code bloat because today's engineers consider those to be unlimited commodities. This results in sloppy coding technique, which results in buggy programs becoming the norm. What are now v1.0 releases would have been considered not good enough for beta testing 15 years ago. On top of that, the proliferation of dependance upon canned controls have resulted in a generation of developers that couldn't program their way around a buggy or mis-spec'd interface control if their life depended upon it. Any one of the original gang of programmers I grew up with who has to learn within constricted environments could out-program these guys with one hand tied away from the keyboard.

In short, dependance upon luxury in technology actually breeds a lazier style of engineering by those engineers using it if they do not learn the basics first. And I honestly see a direct analogy in that between engineering disciplines, where it be audio, software, or structural engineering.

And again, you're right; there are those who dive into these disciplines head first, make no asumptions, and learn the craft from first principles, regardless of whether they use Manleys or manholes. They make good records. But they are also in the vast minority of those to whom the "big stuff" is being sold to these days.

I think it's a little bit of an obligation of folks who have already been around the block a few times to try and turn that minority into a majority. Unfortunately it may be as losing of a battle as the one in Iraq.

G.

 

[superspit]

............The different tricks we had to invent in order to fit some pretty sophisticated programming into a very small box were, if I may say so myself, quite ingenious....................



ahhhh....them good ol' days.....I was once the (self-proclaimed) king of 'Spaghetti Code' !!
Nice memories, SSG!!
Superspit.

 

[LeeRosario]

nah, then he would blame the mic or converter or compressor or.......................

i'll put it this way............visit the mp3 clinic for an hour and then ask yourself if the majority of the problems in those recordings are caused by using cheap gear or something else.

while your at it, visit soundclick, myspace, nowwhereradio, etc.

good point

 

[gtrman_66]

This is easy enough to figure. The local garage band takes their lame ass songs and crappy instruments to Abbey Road to make a record. Van Morrison brings his band,engineers and songs to any one of our modest home setups to make a record.

Which record would you rather listen to?














This is of course assuming you don't absolutely hate Van Morrison. If you do, seek treatment immediately