Equipment Question

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Flick

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I am in charge of putting together a recording studio for the local YMCA to teach the inner city youth. What we want is a set-up that is relatively easy to learn and teach (granted there will be learning curves) and good bang for our buck. We do not need P Diddy sound, but would like high quality sound from this.

The YMCA is willing to shell out the money, but everything bought must be justified...

Being the first time I have ever done this, I am coming here for help. Here is what I want so far...Let me know what else we would need in addition to this, or if my selections are not the wisest.

Triton LE - for the aspiring producer who comes through. Would a Triton workstation be better?

Pro tool LE - Of course I'd love the full blown Pro tools, especially since this sin't my money. But I believe this will give the kids a good taste of the industry standard. Am I right?

KRK V8 monitors...found a good deal and know they are quality monitors.

Mixing console - I want to go digital so that if the kids need to learn an analogue, it will be easier than if the situation was reverse. Really need advice here...heard the 01v was good.

Mics - Need vocal mics, a drum set mic set, and a couple mics for guitars (acoustic and electric) Need lots of help here as well.

Waves Plantinum Bundle - I would like to get this because we will be working through a computer, but maybe this can be replaced with some outboard gear (??) Or would this replace the need for any of the outboard gear?

so, if you guys can lend a hand, that would be awesome! The kids will thank you for it!
 
You're right- This is a big question. You *must* define the budget, at least in a range. If you're talking Pro Tools, you've already decided to go the computer route. What have you got for a computer. You're going to need a lot of memory,processing, RAM, and a wicked sound card. What have you got for a room, and how quiet is it right now? How big is it, and can you get 2 adjacent rooms? You're already addressing gear, but you need to address your recording medium and your space first. Give more details on what you already have.-Richie
 
yes

I knew that was going to come up. I just looked at what we were dealing with today. It is going to be in a room where there will be an entertainment center and cafe, so it will be a hangout place for kids. So we are going to need to keep sound from going in as much as possible. Of course, this isn't perfection we're going for either, but the best for what we can do is what we're looking at.

On the computer, I'll go with a Pent 4, 1.6-2.0 gig, with at least 512 RAM. Sound card is in the air.

The space we are looking at is a vocal/band room with dimensions approx (we did this in a hurry-this is just so you see how much room we're dealing with approx) 12.8 - 12.8 - 14- 14. (feet)

We will build the control room of that. The control room will be somewhat limited (haven't come up with direct dimensions yet) but will most likely be something like a 8 by 8 room.

The budget for all this is about 40,000. we just have to frame and soundproof the room it will be in a building. but thats after i decide gear...so between 10-20 thousand...

ok, let the choosing begin!
 
oops

the reason im deciding gear first is because the guy in charge wanted to research what I came up with first. We're going to be discussing building asap...when i learn more...maaan, im coming here for advice!
 
With that budget, you can do a lot, but you may have to do a lot of tracking when the cafe isn't open. Really, silence is golden, and you will need it. Get on the Studio building and display section, and try to find an architect familiar with Studio construction you can talk into doing the work pro bono for charity. Ditto a good electrician. At this point , spec'ing gear is cart-before-the-horse stuff. Recent advances in microphone, preamp, and compression technology and production will make the gear easier than you thought.
I won't talk soundcards, as my computer recording knowledge is diddly. You will want a serious mixer, at least 4 channels of dedicated high quality preamps, a good multi-fx unit, 4 channels (or more) of compression, a good guitar modeler, voltage regulators and power conditioners, a couple of patch bays, several boom stands, and the best cables that you can get. A couple of solid guitar amps, some middle level guitars, and a keyboard wouldn't be bad either. Mics- You'll need 2-4 good large diaphragm condensers for vocals, several dynamics for guitar cabs,drums, and some vocals. A dedicated kick drum and bass mic, and at least a pair of small diaphragm condensers for drum overheads, acoustic instruments, and group vocals.
I have neither the time nor the expertise to outline your bizzillions of options, but I will list a few outstanding pieces of gear that I have identified as good middle of the road stuff. Your budget will not permit a pro studio, so I think most really high end gear is right out. You can, however, build a really functional and respectable project studio. Expect to spend about half of your money on construction, at a minimum.
In no particular order, these are some items I think would be good choices to fill your categories. Check Macmidimusic,Zzounds, Musician's Friend, and 8th street for good comparitive pricing:

Mixer- You can't go wrong with a big Mackie- hard to kill, and kids are rough on recording gear. There are better and cheaper mixers, but this is the middle of the road.

preamps-Joemeek twinQcs,DBX386,FMR RNP,Studio Projects VTB-1. If you want to spend more for 1 or 2 kickass channels, consider Avalon or Great River.

multi-fx- Check out Lexicon and the less expensive units by TC Electronics.

processing- RNC compressors (cheap and great, get at least 2)
I don't have good advice on a good equalizer, but you'll need one. Someone on the board will give you good advice.

mics- dynamics- Shure sm57 betas, get several. kick/bass- AKG D112. Overheads/small diaphragms- Oktava MC012 (get a matched set with all the capsules from The Sound Room and pay the extra $). For more money, consider Neumann km184/km84.
Vocals- get a pair of AKG414B-TL II. These are a little pricey, but are good for acoustic instruments, strings, vocals, piano, or as drum overheads. For cheap and effective, consider Studio Projects C3, Oktava MK319, and I'd get a pair of higher end dynamics, such as Shure SM-7's

Cables-Mogami, Monster, B.L.U.E. In general, don't buy cheap cables that look good, particularly HOSA.

guitar modeler- A hotly contested item, I prefer POD Pro personally.

Other items will be several pairs of good Studio headphones, and a headphone distribution amp. some heavy duty boom stands- check On Stage SB96 PLUS, and a couple of little ones, such as On Stage MS7920B mini. I use Sennheiser headphones and a Rolls headphone amp, but there are lots of options out there.

Remember that audio gear is sold like a car, and prices are often negotiable. Try to find a big local proaudio dealer and get the best package price you can on a big order, and hang tough. You need someone local that can do repairs, and who will accept returns of as much defective gear as possible. As far as gear goes, I have found very few items that everyone agrees are excellent, mostly the Shure SM57 and RNC conpressor will deliver top-notch bang for buck. Good luck.-Richie
 
thank you

Dude, seriously, thank you for the time you've spent. I sincerely appreciate it! Thank you thank you thank you!

Anyone else's input would be great!
 
Sorry I can't lend much help, but with that budget you can certainly do TONS! I would suggest just browsing around some of the past threads in different forums, questions like this come up all the time, so there's already lots of reference for you. Good Luck! :D
 
Check out the Radar by Iz corp. It is a 24track digital recorder and their digital i/o only version is only $4000. You can customize them with different convertors and features and they have some cool packages. They would work well with a digital mixer using TDIF or Lightpipe to interface with the digital console. You can transfer the tracks to a computer if you want but they also have a lot of editing features built in.

www.izcorp.com
 
Check out some of the studio info at

http://www.locall.aunz.com/~johnsay/

Buy a copy of F. Alton Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics, and try to stop thinking like a carpenter. What I mean by that is - Only a carpenter thinks in nice, identical dimensions when building - this is handy for material conservation; nice, full, 4 x 8 sheets of building materials are quick to put up. However, you will find that a room built that way really sucks for audio. What you want for an audio room is, at least, no two dimensions that are exact multiples of each other. Even better is a room with no parallel surfaces. Splayed walls, vaulted ceilings, symmetrical with reference to a plane that divides the room while passing thru a point equidistant between the speakers and passing thru the center of the mix engineer's head, these are best for a control room. Definitely NOT 8 x 8 feet, ESPECIALLY if the ceiling would be that height too. An 8 foot cube room would be so resonant at 4 or 5 different frequencies that just talking in it would probably induce feedback. If you want to experience the downside of parallel walls firsthand, walk into any fairly quiet room that has a minimum of soft things in it, such as drapes, couches, wall-hangings - now, clap your hands sharply. Move around the room and repeat. Listen to what happens immediately AFTER you clap your hands. Sound like you're in a rain barrel? That's flutter echo, and you want NONE of that in your recordings or in the room where you make decisions on those recordings. It's caused by parallel walls. There are other reasons against parallel, but that is one of the main ones. It can be controlled with proper wall treatment, but not having it in the first place is better...

I agree totally with Richard on this point; acoustics is not a 5-minute course, by about 10 years or so. I know what it's like to talk to non-technical people who happen to be in charge, but still, as soon as possible you should start studying enough acoustics to find out how to keep from wasting all that money on equipment. A cheap Radio shack mic will make better recordings in a proper room than a $2500 Neumann will make in a bad room, given that all other variables are the same.

Start designing your "No Drinks or Food Allowed" sign for the control room door NOW, and you'll need that repair facility somewhat less... Steve
 
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