epoxied superhumbuckers

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fireflyva

fireflyva

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I have a 1976 Gibson 335 with epoxied superhumbuckers. Does anyone have any experience with working on the pickups? How do you remove the epoxy to get to the inner workings? These are the Bill Lawrence pickups.

Have anyone out there successfully worked on these?

Thank you
 
What needs to be done? Not that I have an answer for you, but beyond potting a pickup, I've not really considered pickups to be fixable.
 
When pickups are potted in epoxy they usually can't be repaired. Are You sure it's dead?
 
No, I was told that the neck pickup was "shorted out" but plugged the guitar up a few minutes ago and it sounds fine. However, the "guitar technician" also told me that the second set of wires/leads coming out of the problem/neck pickup had become so short over time that he couldn't splice anymore line/wire on it to run it to the tap switch, and that the only way to correct the problem was to open the pickup. However, with the epoxy in place, he couldn't reach it. I personally haven't looked at whether the wire is "too short" myself but I'm beginning to suspect that maybe the tech wasn't the tech I thought he was because obviously the pickup "isn't dead" at all.

However, removing the "internal organs" of a 335 through the f-holes is enough to bring a grown man to his knees...actually, getting them out aren't so bad, it's putting them back in is the challenge. If any of you know tricks or special tools to make the process easier, please feel free to share them.
 
When I was working on arch top or hollowbdies like the 335, I was using small string tied up to each part and the other end tied to a small nut or some type of small weight. So when I had it opened up there would be strings sticking out all over. It is an art, especially when working with delicate, expensive, hand carved tap tuned, arch tops, cause getting the pisces back with the strings is easy, but getting the pots to slip in without marring the wood on the underside takes good hands and patience. Mind you not very common to find those with mounted PUs, but certainly there are some even L5, Artist Award,


fireflyva said:
No, I was told that the neck pickup was "shorted out" but plugged the guitar up a few minutes ago and it sounds fine. However, the "guitar technician" also told me that the second set of wires/leads coming out of the problem/neck pickup had become so short over time that he couldn't splice anymore line/wire on it to run it to the tap switch, and that the only way to correct the problem was to open the pickup. However, with the epoxy in place, he couldn't reach it. I personally haven't looked at whether the wire is "too short" myself but I'm beginning to suspect that maybe the tech wasn't the tech I thought he was because obviously the pickup "isn't dead" at all.

However, removing the "internal organs" of a 335 through the f-holes is enough to bring a grown man to his knees...actually, getting them out aren't so bad, it's putting them back in is the challenge. If any of you know tricks or special tools to make the process easier, please feel free to share them.
Click to expand...
 
As for the PU short,

If there is a short in the windings, it will need to be rewound. So find a good tech that will do that, not GC and not even most, someone who specializes in PU repair and/or building. In this case, it will never be the same, so if it is in the windings, it is going to be a non-original PU, but still might be worth doing, if you can find a good hand winder. In that case, I would just send the PU as is and not do it yourself. They will have to cut it out and if they are rewinding, they don;t have to be all that gental.

I mean most would point to the hand winding of the original Gibson hum buckers PAFS etc.... as a critical difference in sound between the reissues. That said it does take some skill and knowledge, but not rocket science to hand wind.

Maybe get a second opinion before sending it out to be rewound tho!!!!
 
Epoxied pickup = no rewind...

On the plus side you can swap them out to a recipe of your choice and keep the old ones. What is wrong with the old one?

On Most epoxy resins is reversible with heat and to un-pot an epoxy pickup is pretty much a none starter,,,
 
Bop Stop Studio said:
When I was working on arch top or hollowbdies like the 335, I was using small string tied up to each part and the other end tied to a small nut or some type of small weight. So when I had it opened up there would be strings sticking out all over. It is an art, especially when working with delicate, expensive, hand carved tap tuned, arch tops, cause getting the pisces back with the strings is easy, but getting the pots to slip in without marring the wood on the underside takes good hands and patience. Mind you not very common to find those with mounted PUs, but certainly there are some even L5, Artist Award,
Click to expand...

A 335 is not a " delicate, expensive, hand carved tap tuned, arch tops,"... working on then is not an art....
 
muttley600 said:
A 335 is not a " delicate, expensive, hand carved tap tuned, arch tops,"... working on then is not an art....
Click to expand...
I know what a 335 is and said arch top or hollow bodies, no?
saying it is same approach.
 
If any of you know tricks or special tools to make the process easier, please feel free to share them.
Click to expand...
like muttley said getting them hot helps.

Is it a L-500? If so they're pretty easy to find, and not that expensive. Repairing them isn't worth the effort.

Bop Stop Studio said:
When I was working on arch top or hollowbdies like the 335, I was using small string tied up to each part and the other end tied to a small nut or some type of small weight. So when I had it opened up there would be strings sticking out all over. It is an art, especially when working with delicate, expensive, hand carved tap tuned, arch tops, cause getting the pisces back with the strings is easy, but getting the pots to slip in without marring the wood on the underside takes good hands and patience. Mind you not very common to find those with mounted PUs, but certainly there are some even L5, Artist Award,
Click to expand...
When I work on those I start out by making myself very, very small....
 
Bop Stop Studio said:
I know what a 335 is and said arch top or hollow bodies, no?
saying it is same approach.
Click to expand...

There appears to be some sort of language barrier here so I will say again...

A 335 is not a " delicate, expensive, hand carved tap tuned, arch tops,"... working on then is not an art....

To add. A 335 Is a ply topped laminate construction. No tap tuning.... No hand carved top.... Not an art or even for the most part a science. I can post pictures and details if you wish to know the difference.
 
fireflyva said:
No, I was told that the neck pickup was "shorted out" but plugged the guitar up a few minutes ago and it sounds fine. However, the "guitar technician" also told me that the second set of wires/leads coming out of the problem/neck pickup had become so short over time that he couldn't splice anymore line/wire on it to run it to the tap switch, and that the only way to correct the problem was to open the pickup. However, with the epoxy in place, he couldn't reach it. I personally haven't looked at whether the wire is "too short" myself but I'm beginning to suspect that maybe the tech wasn't the tech I thought he was because obviously the pickup "isn't dead" at all.

However, removing the "internal organs" of a 335 through the f-holes is enough to bring a grown man to his knees...actually, getting them out aren't so bad, it's putting them back in is the challenge. If any of you know tricks or special tools to make the process easier, please feel free to share them.
Click to expand...

If this is the case then he is just not confident replacing hook up wires. It can be done quite easily as long as you can get at the coil ends. Usually not a problem even on well potted pickups.

If the problem is in the bobbin windings themselves then you can pretty much forget it if it's epoxy potted. The amount of heat required to separate epoxy would also melt the coating on the windings making them useless. It would also probably damage to bobbins themselves to the point of fubar...

Your best bet is to find a competent tech or luthier who can advise you properly on where the problem is but you know this because the guys on the Gibson forum have already told you to do just that before you posted here...;)

Resetting an hollowbody wiring loom isn't that hard if you take your time and there are a few tricks to help. If you go that route I'll mention a few things to aid you.
 
muttley600 said:
There appears to be some sort of language barrier here so I will say again...

A 335 is not a " delicate, expensive, hand carved tap tuned, arch tops,"... working on then is not an art....

To add. A 335 Is a ply topped laminate construction. No tap tuning.... No hand carved top.... Not an art or even for the most part a science. I can post pictures and details if you wish to know the difference.
Click to expand...

Yeah seems a language barrier for sure! as I was saying, I know 335 is not a carved top, I have owned them, but thanks for the info. I was again, saying the approach is the same. As for "art" was being facetious, but simply saying it can be a pan in the A$$.

Pics are not necessary, my friend. Had more than my share of "arch tops" and yes, 335 and 335 style guitars! but thanX
 
Bop Stop Studio said:
Yeah seems a language barrier for sure! as I was saying, I know 335 is not a carved top, I have owned them, but thanks for the info. I was again, saying the approach is the same. As for "art" was being facetious, but simply saying it can be a pan in the A$$.

Pics are not necessary, my friend. Had more than my share of "arch tops" and yes, 335 and 335 style guitars! but thanX
Click to expand...

No problem...as most of the guys here will testify I will point out when stuff gets posted that assumes something to be the case when it is not... They will also testify that I have a little experience of archtops...;)

Getting wireing looms in and out of a hollow body f hole guitar is pretty simple once you've done a few. Especially if it has cuts for the pickups or in the case of a 335 it is ply topped and has those lovely wide Gibson f holes...
 
Alright, guys....thanks for all your help. I get the feeling that the pickup isn't beyond hope because as I mentioned it works when I plugged it up yesterday - just not in the single coil position but I believe that it probably isn't even connected despite what I've been told. This was a luthier recommended to me but his skills did not translate into doing what I needed him to do....so...

And yes, I asked these same questions over at the Gibson forum and generally received the same answer - find a skilled luthier. I did contract Lindy Fralin (the company, not the man) in the Richmond area and they said they don't work on epoxied humbuckers and said they didn't know anyone who did. I did contact two other luthiers online and were simply told they didn't work on epoxied pickups and didn't "think" they could be repaired.

So let this be a lesson to all....
 
fireflyva said:
Alright, guys....thanks for all your help. I get the feeling that the pickup isn't beyond hope because as I mentioned it works when I plugged it up yesterday - just not in the single coil position but I believe that it probably isn't even connected despite what I've been told. This was a luthier recommended to me but his skills did not translate into doing what I needed him to do....so...

And yes, I asked these same questions over at the Gibson forum and generally received the same answer - find a skilled luthier. I did contract Lindy Fralin (the company, not the man) in the Richmond area and they said they don't work on epoxied humbuckers and said they didn't know anyone who did. I did contact two other luthiers online and were simply told they didn't work on epoxied pickups and didn't "think" they could be repaired.

So let this be a lesson to all....
Click to expand...

A decent tech would give it a qui9ck check over for little or no charge. To check continuity on a pickup takes a few minutes at most. If you turned up at my place with the guitar and a bottle of wine I'd show you how to check it...;)

The epoxy bit only applies if the break in continuity is in one of the bobbin coils. If it isnt it's fixable. If it is you can swap it out for another pu.. Neither outcome is that expensive or problematic.
 
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