minofifa
New member
i thought i read somewhere that the aardvark q10 uses MME drivers and gets really good results with latency... is it a special circumstance?
J
Jim Y
New member
Not everyone is bothered by latency. CEP and Audition don't support softsynths or input monitoring - you put audio in and then you listen to it back. The latency is not an issue in this case. There are still people who work by recording perfomances and then edit/mix and nothing more. Professional multitrack software that does not support ASIO is the exception now, but as I point out, some still exist. As neither E-mu nor their reviewers have publicised the full extent of the cards MME limitations, I felt bound to do so. There are reasons why an Audio production card would avoid favoring MME, but that isn't my point.
I'm not making a case for M-audio here either. Lord knows it's taken them a while to get a good WDM driver (but I believe they have at last done it!). And I don't doubt the E-mu have superior audio performance to the Deltas - they use a more recent generation of componants, so they ought to!
Some manufacturers do seem to have made drivers that offer MME without Windows limitations. Here I suspect they have built a driver that has the same interface as MME but in fact completely bypasses the Windows MME system (the Kmixer componant) - Essentially you get the equivalent of an ASIO driver that looks like an MME one and so avoids the fixed latency of Kmixer. Some are called A-WDM and some E-WDM, or whatever. Despite the names, they are not WDM drivers - no problem if it works for you and your chosen software.
Most issues with Windows MME are caused by that Kmixer. If the soundcard only actually runs at one sample-rate (a common thing with some soundchips - usually 48Khz) then Windows Kmixer provides the sample-rate conversion for other rates, with any quality loss that that implies. Windows2000 Kmixer had an additional hit of a 6db cut in playback level - I don't know if that is remedied by recent service packs - the cut isn't there in XP. MME also has an arbitrary limit of 16 device channels (in XP), though I doubt that bothers many in practice.
I'm not making a case for M-audio here either. Lord knows it's taken them a while to get a good WDM driver (but I believe they have at last done it!). And I don't doubt the E-mu have superior audio performance to the Deltas - they use a more recent generation of componants, so they ought to!
Some manufacturers do seem to have made drivers that offer MME without Windows limitations. Here I suspect they have built a driver that has the same interface as MME but in fact completely bypasses the Windows MME system (the Kmixer componant) - Essentially you get the equivalent of an ASIO driver that looks like an MME one and so avoids the fixed latency of Kmixer. Some are called A-WDM and some E-WDM, or whatever. Despite the names, they are not WDM drivers - no problem if it works for you and your chosen software.
Most issues with Windows MME are caused by that Kmixer. If the soundcard only actually runs at one sample-rate (a common thing with some soundchips - usually 48Khz) then Windows Kmixer provides the sample-rate conversion for other rates, with any quality loss that that implies. Windows2000 Kmixer had an additional hit of a 6db cut in playback level - I don't know if that is remedied by recent service packs - the cut isn't there in XP. MME also has an arbitrary limit of 16 device channels (in XP), though I doubt that bothers many in practice.
minofifa
New member
thanx Jim, very informative.
S
Sklathill
Soundcard Junkie
You're right about the Aardvark driver, but the E-WDM actually is a WDM driver...just with a bunch of other stuff on top of it. (routing between the WDM, ASIO, and GSIF components of the driver...) ESI actually made a plain old WDM driver before releasing their E-WDM functionality some years back...
I've always wondered why my friend W2K system sounded strange...interesting...
I've always wondered why my friend W2K system sounded strange...interesting...
E
earworm
New member
wow, so adobe audition 1.5 does NOT support ASIO ? jezus christ...
ehm, i just got me a MOTU 828 ... i know it works with asio 2.0
, but can i also make it work with MDM?
i gotto admit, i'm a totall newby concerned to drivers...
so the emu is great if you work with apps like CUBASE,
but if i'm correct i wouldn't buy an EMU if you only wanna work with cool edit ?
i think the problem lays with cool edit then, no ? if that app simply doesn't work
with asio...damn, they gotto update this, no ?
you guys are the sh*t , and thats a compliment, i never thought i'd get this much info,
i love it, but i'm getting a bit confused, gonna look up some more info about
drivers and stuff myself;..
naw, a while ago i started noticing the JOEMEEK ;...mq1 (?)
don't know if thats the correct name, its a little box, the size of a cdrom,
and you can puit it in yer computer to record stuff, its got compression and eq,
i guess also phantom power,,,, is this a soundcard ? or an addition that you can
only use if you already have a soundcard ?
maybe thats interesting if you wanna record just some guitars...
and its pretty "cheap" too
i always like Maudio ...for their audio quality, not for their drivers...
but can you guys make this a bit more clear:
so imagine, i only record with adobe audition, and i buy that Emu 0404,
then i can only record ONE stereo track ? so the other two extra inputs are worthless ??
can't be, can it ? so once again... it would be better to stop using Audition and switch to...cubase or so... i think the soundcard is more important than the software, it seems
easier to switch between apps than between hardware...
mhhhhh....this thread isn't dead yet i think,,,,,
any more opinions ? comments on what i just said ? its all still a bit cloudy for me;..
but already THANX alot for the info guys !
cheers,
earworm
"
And I don't doubt the E-mu have superior audio performance to the Deltas - they use a more recent generation of componants, so they ought to!
"
ehm ? you're saying the bigger EMU cards offer a 'better audio quality' than the
M-audio delta 1010 ?
ehm, i just got me a MOTU 828 ... i know it works with asio 2.0
, but can i also make it work with MDM?
i gotto admit, i'm a totall newby concerned to drivers...
so the emu is great if you work with apps like CUBASE,
but if i'm correct i wouldn't buy an EMU if you only wanna work with cool edit ?
i think the problem lays with cool edit then, no ? if that app simply doesn't work
with asio...damn, they gotto update this, no ?
you guys are the sh*t , and thats a compliment, i never thought i'd get this much info,
i love it, but i'm getting a bit confused, gonna look up some more info about
drivers and stuff myself;..
naw, a while ago i started noticing the JOEMEEK ;...mq1 (?)
don't know if thats the correct name, its a little box, the size of a cdrom,
and you can puit it in yer computer to record stuff, its got compression and eq,
i guess also phantom power,,,, is this a soundcard ? or an addition that you can
only use if you already have a soundcard ?
maybe thats interesting if you wanna record just some guitars...
and its pretty "cheap" too
i always like Maudio ...for their audio quality, not for their drivers...
but can you guys make this a bit more clear:
so imagine, i only record with adobe audition, and i buy that Emu 0404,
then i can only record ONE stereo track ? so the other two extra inputs are worthless ??
can't be, can it ? so once again... it would be better to stop using Audition and switch to...cubase or so... i think the soundcard is more important than the software, it seems
easier to switch between apps than between hardware...
mhhhhh....this thread isn't dead yet i think,,,,,
any more opinions ? comments on what i just said ? its all still a bit cloudy for me;..
but already THANX alot for the info guys !
cheers,
earworm
"
And I don't doubt the E-mu have superior audio performance to the Deltas - they use a more recent generation of componants, so they ought to!
"
ehm ? you're saying the bigger EMU cards offer a 'better audio quality' than the
M-audio delta 1010 ?
D
darnold
New member
If hes running mostly games, its definately recommended to get a gaming card. They have special DSP on them to help illiminate the load on the CPU.
My $900 Motu 2408mk3 runs crap with games because of this. All the processing is done by the CPU because its not hardware accelerated so you will have graphics skips and sound buffering problems.
Then later on if he is more serious about recording, he can upgrade to something specifically for recording.
Danny
My $900 Motu 2408mk3 runs crap with games because of this. All the processing is done by the CPU because its not hardware accelerated so you will have graphics skips and sound buffering problems.
Then later on if he is more serious about recording, he can upgrade to something specifically for recording.
Danny
B
bobbyeturner
New member
emu 0404 in my opinion
in my opinion after playing around with the emu for a few days is that- yes the user interface is a bit of a hurdle, but it DOES produce pressional results. you can use the on board dsp for effects without taking cpu overhead! i have used it at 96k and it runs circles around any sound blaster product as far as sound quality goes(even the audigy!) i set the latency at 2ms running 96k, and virtually no midi jitter, no latency drop out, and sparkling clean sound. this is the card i have been dreaming about for years. i would go with the emu for studio use, and the sound blaster for surround/ gaming- end of story!
bob
in my opinion after playing around with the emu for a few days is that- yes the user interface is a bit of a hurdle, but it DOES produce pressional results. you can use the on board dsp for effects without taking cpu overhead! i have used it at 96k and it runs circles around any sound blaster product as far as sound quality goes(even the audigy!) i set the latency at 2ms running 96k, and virtually no midi jitter, no latency drop out, and sparkling clean sound. this is the card i have been dreaming about for years. i would go with the emu for studio use, and the sound blaster for surround/ gaming- end of story!
bob
W
Wise1one1
New member
minofifa said:
But no m-audio card can match the sound/ability of a Emu card...PERIOD...the converters are un toppable by any card under a 1000 bucks...not even the Motu 828mkII can touch the 1820m.
And the drivers are alot more stable now that Emu released yet ANOTHER update for the Emu line of cards.
i'd say this..
m-audio = semi pro
emu = pro
Jeff_D
New member
Wise1one1 said:
That statement makes me not want to listen to anything you have to say, and besides that, mentioning the "best for under $1000" without the words Lynx or RME makes me think you're just talkin out your ass. M-Audio and EM-U may well be in the same class of cards but i still have major problems with Creative, so, again, I am skeptical of the EM-U stuff because of past exprience with Creative.
A
AlfredB
New member
Wise1one1 said:
care to elaborate?
what are the facts behind your opinion? what are your experiences? what HW/SW/ combo did you use ...
you bite off a lot
b.r.
alfred
A
AlfredB
New member
one thing that I did not read in this thread ...
SoundBlaster cards (not e-mu) are hard-locked to 48khz sampling rate ...
so whenever you want to record at different rates 44,1 or 96 for ex. there is some SERIOUS bit-shuffling going on that bogs down your cpu and degrades your sound.
b.r.
alfred
SoundBlaster cards (not e-mu) are hard-locked to 48khz sampling rate ...
so whenever you want to record at different rates 44,1 or 96 for ex. there is some SERIOUS bit-shuffling going on that bogs down your cpu and degrades your sound.
b.r.
alfred
W
Wise1one1
New member
AlfredB said:care to elaborate?
what are the facts behind your opinion? what are your experiences? what HW/SW/ combo did you use ...
you bite off a lot
b.r.
alfred
Elaborate on what?
Facts behind my opinion; im assuming your referring to my statement about Emu cards being better than M-audio.
BETTER CONVERTERS, BETTER I/OS, BETTER INTERFACE, BETTER DRIVERS, BETTER FEATURES.
A delta 1010 wouldn't even come close to a emu-1820m.
A delta 44 wouldn't even come close to a emu-1212m.
Hw/Sw combo?
Try audiophile 2496 + logic
delta 44 + cubase sx 2.0, sonar 3 producers edition
emu-1820m + nuendo 2.1, cubase sx 2.0
Your crazy if you think M-Audio line of cards has anything for compeition against the Emu line. The sound quality by far on the Emu shits on any M-Audio card.
S
Sklathill
Soundcard Junkie
Not having multi-channel WDM or GSIF or 88.2 kHz support or bit-accurate spdif passthrough does not qualify the E-mu as having better drivers.
I'm a very happy E-mu 1820 owner and have been for the last half year, but there are still problems with the E-mu offering...some of them quite serious, depending on what you need to do.
Now the Echo 3G generation of cards...that looks like some serious competition for the E-mu. The by the numbers sound specs don't beat it, but the drivers certainly look like they do.
I'm a very happy E-mu 1820 owner and have been for the last half year, but there are still problems with the E-mu offering...some of them quite serious, depending on what you need to do.
Now the Echo 3G generation of cards...that looks like some serious competition for the E-mu. The by the numbers sound specs don't beat it, but the drivers certainly look like they do.
W
Wise1one1
New member
Sklathill said:
True, that was a nice point, and I agree. It all depends on what you want/need to do in your audio. For hip hop/rnb it's more than what I need. I haven't tried any bands yet, im hoping too very soon.
And by better drivers, I was pointing towards the M-Audio line of cards. But you still have a good point.
88.2 khz is what im waiting for. And multi-channel wdm would be awesome.