EMU or Creative ?

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earworm

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i'm wondering, my brother wants to buy a soundcard for his pc,
he wants to record his guitar and some simple stuff, nothing fancy at all,

only for fun, so he asked me "whats the difference between those EMU cards and those from CREATIVE" ?

the only thing i could say is that i think that creative is for gamers....
so what about Emu ? any better ;.. they sure offer products that seem alot more serious ...

but thats only my two cents....
any comments ?

cheers
 
i think (i may be wrong here0) but the A/D converters in the E-Mu cards are of higher quality than the creative cards. I think some models even have the same A/D as protools units. Also, the driver structure is better in the E-mu cards. That siad, if your brother is just looking to mess around with a guitar, the creative cards would probably work ok. If it's a money issue, i'de would think the creative card would be ok.
 
ok,
so lets say, if you compare a Creative Audigy 2

with an EMU 404 (or whats the name again, their smallest card,with like 4 inputs, including midi?)

do you know which one is better for midi and latency ?
 
Id steer way clear of Creative. I'm still i bit reluctant about E-Mu (you know its the same company right?) - but they've seem to be getting pretty good review. Differences between gamer cards and prosumer stuff is bit rate, s/n ratio, sample rate, distortion and a bunch of other quality related issues that the creative card typically fair pretty poorly on (again, fine for games, not fine for recording). Creaive soundblaster types arent much better than the onboard sound found on most mobo's (in my experience anyway).
 
he wants to record his guitar and some simple stuff, nothing fancy at all,

only for fun
Click to expand...

hardly a "prosumer". Obviously you are not going to get record label results with a creative card but there are people on this forum that use them and get good results. I remember before i got my sound card i used a yamaha stock soundcard that came with my laptop. of course, compared to a delta 1010, it was a piece of crap but it still recorded and it still sounded good.

I guess my point is that lots of people will tell you that the creative sound cards eat ass just because they have heard other people on this board say that. But, in honesty, many people have gotten good results with them. do a search and see what you come up with.

That said, i would suggest going to ncix.com and ordering an m-audio audiophilie. It would smoke both cards for recording. The higher end E-mu cards are probably better though.
 
minofifa

Don't want to start some silly "this is better than that" argument, but I just replaced my audiophile with an E-MU 0404 and noticed a distinct improvement. The 0404 seems to be becoming the card to get in its price range.
 
minofifa

Don't want to start some silly "this is better than that" argument, but I just replaced my audiophile with an E-MU 0404 and noticed a distinct improvement. The 0404 seems to be becoming the card to get in its price range.
Click to expand...

Well there you have it. I think the point i am trying to get across is that people will recomend this and that but just keep in mind that they are all just opinions. Personally, i am an m-audio guy, i like their gear and i have mostly that brand. I have never used the E-mu stuff so i can not give a personal opinion on it. I have tried the audiophilie and i did like it very much. Well said though, gArry, getting into a "this card is better than that card" argument has been exhausted on this forum. The original question was will the creative card work for doodling around with an acoutic guitar and my answer is yes. I have no idea what the price comparison is betweent he audigyand the E-mu card. I think if i was going to get a card for multipurpose like watchin DVD's and games as well, i would probably get the audigyy but if i was sticktly getting into recording, i would take a serious look at the new E-mu cards. I'de go for the 1220m though :D
 
Thing with the new E-mu cards - not advertised and not "found out" in any review I've seen, is that they are very poor for MME - you have to have an ASIO program such as Cubase to get all the channels and although MME has 24bit, it goes no higher than 48Khz. So E-mu is a no-no for Cool Edit Pro/Audition for instance - unless 2 in and 2 out is all you need.
Compared to the Audigy, the E-mus come out well ahead on audio quality, but do remember they are no good for game sound and do not have midi synths.
 
At musiciansfriend.com

Audiophilie = $99
E-mu = $99

Both have very similar features, 2 I/O, Midi, digital connections, equal bit depth ans sampling rate...
A main difference seems to be the DSP chip on the E-mu, something that i don't think i would use. Maybe it would work for some though.
 
For the use you're describing, an SBLive card would work if you could use a preamp and stick to the line in inputs (stay away from the mic in), or had a way of getting a digital signal in. They're great cards, but they are intended for the gamer market. The SBLive still has a killer MIDI set. You can usually install a sound card without removing the SBLive card but you might need to assign which duties go with which.

I'm just moving beyond the SBLive card stage myself, with a M-Audio Delta 66 on the way. One step at a time.

If you go with either the Emu or the Audiophile, you'll have something for live recording that will smoke the SB Live card. And at the price, there isn't much point in overanalyzing it. Just dive in!
 
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I still use a Live card to handle midi, but the audio is recorded with an mAudio 24/96. All soft synths I use are routed through the mAudio with minimal latency. I get good results with this setup.
 
Jim Y said:
Thing with the new E-mu cards - not advertised and not "found out" in any review I've seen, is that they are very poor for MME - you have to have an ASIO program such as Cubase to get all the channels and although MME has 24bit, it goes no higher than 48Khz. So E-mu is a no-no for Cool Edit Pro/Audition for instance - unless 2 in and 2 out is all you need.
Compared to the Audigy, the E-mus come out well ahead on audio quality, but do remember they are no good for game sound and do not have midi synths.
Click to expand...

Isn't that more a function of MME than a problem with E-Mu, per se? MME drivers aren't designed for serious audio work.

See below:
ASIO
ASIO stands for Audio Stream In/Out and is a technology created by Steinberg, the company responsible for the Cubase recording software product. ASIO, like DirectX, was designed to reduce latency by providing direct access to hardware - specifically, sound cards. ASIO 2.0 is the latest version, which provides some additional features such as hardware sharing between applications and enhanced audio/MIDI synchronisation. Generally speaking, ASIO is really only utilised in professional audio and music applications, although some MP3 DJ software supports it due to the associated low latency. ASIO is supported in Windows 9x, Me, NT, 2000 and XP and can provide latency as low as 2-10ms.


MME
MME stands for Multimedia Extensions and was introduced as part of Windows 3.0. This is an old technology, available only on Windows 3.x, Me and 9x. Although recent versions of MME drivers can compete with DirectX in terms of latency, MME drivers should only be used where DirectX drivers are not available. Usually, MME drivers provide about 300-1000ms latency.



WDM
These Windows Driver Model drivers are a more recent addition to Windows 98, Me, 2000 and XP. They are often ‘translated’ from DirectX or MME drivers. Although this often introduces 30ms or more extra latency, some WDM drivers can provide latency under 10ms, making them a good alternative to ASIO, for example.


Ted
 
Garry Sharp said:
minofifa

Don't want to start some silly "this is better than that" argument, but I just replaced my audiophile with an E-MU 0404 and noticed a distinct improvement. The 0404 seems to be becoming the card to get in its price range.
Click to expand...

I am currently considering both the audiophile 2496 and the E-Mu 0404 to upgrade from my onboard integrated sound. My interest is in transfering vinyl to cd. Garry, it would be helpful to me if you could be more specific about the distinct improvement that you percieved going from the audiophile to the E-MU 0404. If anyone else has experience with both of these cards, your input would also be appreciated.
 
I have experience with both the Audiophile 2496 and E-MU, having owned both. You get significantly better A/D and D/A coverters with the E-MU for the same price. Overall, you get more card for your money with the E-MU 0404. Dogberry, if you intend to use your card specifically to digitize LP audio and then transfer it to CD, both the Audiophile 2496 and the E-MU 0404 will get the job done. However, I still insist that the E-MU 0404 is in another class when it comes to audio quality. The Audiophile 2496 is a good card and has gained wide acceptance, but it's fast becoming yesterday's card of choice. Nothing wrong with that, but something to consider if you are in the market for a card today. It's also possible that M-Audio will soon replace the 2496, though it's driver support will certainly continue.

I did a quick write up of the E-MU 0404 that you might want to have a look at:
http://www.kordak.net/0404/review.htm


Grigorios
 
Ok, time for some driver clarification maybe?
WDM has been out for a while, but even reviewers still fall into the trap of saying things like "provided with WDM and ASIO drivers". I'll attempt to clear up the terms and capabilities if I may?

MME is not limited except by latency. The Audiophile (for instance) provides all it's ins and outs provided the MME application supports multichannel. MME supports multiclient (more than one app' can access the hardware) - ASIO does not. MME can use a mix of soundcards - ASIO cannot. MME is a standard Windows interface - ASIO is not.
Ordinarily, MME appears limited to single stereo channels, but it is the applications that are the limiting factor - Windows Media Player can only use the device chosen in the Sounds control panel for example. In earlier Windows, MME could only provide 2in and 2out, but that's all the soundcards of the day could manage. WDM has changed that. Cool Edit Pro or Adobe Audition can make use of all channels provided by your soundcards in multitrack mode - but not with an E-mu card.

A WDM driver - a true one that is, consists of a core "kernal driver" provided with a choice of interfaces. MME and DirectSound are provided my Windows. ASIO, EASI and GSIF interfaces are provided by the device vendor or a third party ( eg ASIO4ALL).

Low latency WDM is nearly always incorrectly named. The driver itself IS the WDM and the term WDM can encompass all the interfaces mentioned. This low-latency WDM interface is correctly named KS (Kernal Streaming) and is provided by the Application (eg Sonar). The Windows MME/DirectSound interface (a system driver called "KMixer") is over-ridden by the KS application which takes it's own control of the Kernal driver. It essentially does what ASIO does, but the interface is buried - it's performance ought to be at least equal to ASIO.

Clearly, the E-mu card does not have a proper WDM driver - it is optimised for ASIO only - neither for that matter do Digidesign interfaces, so I suppose E-mu are in good company (?)
I would suggest the theories that E-mu/Creative will improve the driver in later versions are so much vapour - at least as far as MME and KS are concerned. They never produced a good WDM driver for the Live! and Audigy cards after all this time!
 
wow... i just realized how ignorant i am about drivers.... basically what i got out of that is that the audiophilie is more versatile because it has both "WDM" and ASIO drivers, as where the E-Mu does not. So in programs that cannot use ASIO (like cool edit), the audiophilie would be a better choice. Is this close to the truth or am i off?
 
dogberry - I think grigorios gave a more informed response than I am capable of. All I noticed was that I could hear more going on on my reference CD's with the E-MU card, and this applied to the couple of my own mixes I have listened to.

Jim Y's comments re drivers very helpful - in short it's an ASIO only card, doesn't support EAX for the gamers, but it's excellent value at the budget end for those of us who want to run compatible sequencers, and listen to CD's / MP3's on the PC.
 
Jim Y said:
Ok, time for some driver clarification maybe?
...snip
MME is not limited except by latency. ...snip
Click to expand...

I don't want to start an argument here as it's clear to me you probably know more about this than I do, but..... ;)
.......that's a rather LARGE limitation you just tossed to the side. :(

Pops and crackles aside, latency is probably the single biggest complaint and problem we all deal with in working with a DAW. Unacceptable latency makes softsynths unusuable and overdubbing impossible.

That aside, are people having problems with the WDM drivers for the new E-Mu cards? I haven't seen any reports of it, but I don't know who all is using which drivers. From the limited reports I've seen, people have been very pleased with both the sound and performance of the 1820M and 1212M. I haven't read any reports on the 0404 yet.

I'm not really in the market for a soundcard, but you never know....


Ted
 
Ok, I spoke too soon (nothing new there...:) )!

I did find a few posts on the Cakewalk forums about people having to use the ASIO drivers to get functionality in SONAR. Though they seemed to have good luck with WDM in the version of Cubasis included with the card.

Ted
 
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