electric guitars....always out of tune?

[antispatula]

I just started messing around with my electric for the first time in forever today. I'd tune the guitar perfectly, just to hear out-of-tune chords.

For example, I'd play a C chord:

and the open G string would be out-of-tune. So Then I'd tune it up a little, then play an F chord:

Just to find the G string (now being pressed down) out of tune!

I opend a tuner vst and realized that when all strings were open, they were perfectly in tune. But anytime they weren't (ie my finger was pressing down a string), due to the pressure of my fingers, they would tune upwards slightly. So any note I played that was not an open string, would be slightly sharp. I know that this all sounds obvious, but how am I supposed to play chords on the electric guitar when they include both open and closed notes? That means that the open notes are in tune, and the closed notes are all slightly flat. I've tried simply putting less pressure on the strings, but I cannot touch them lightly enough for them to truly be in tune.

For some reason I don't get this when I play acoustic, perhaps because the strings I use on my acoustic are much thicker.

Does anyone have similar problems? Is it my guitar or do I simply need to work on putting less pressure on the strings so they don't go sharp, or should I get a different gauge of string, or is this a fact of life that I need to live with?

 

[Soundmind??]

sounds like your giti might need some professional help, in other words, it hasnt been set up properly. Go to the Fender web site, they have a manual for setting up your guitar if you have the tools and skills to do so. If not, you will at least see what needs to be done to properly set one up and be able to understand what the guitar tech is talking about if you take it to him. There are lots of adjustments to make to get an electric guitar right.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo Antispatula! Trust me on this one. Put light Rock/Jazz strings on it, with a wound G string. I recommend 11's, as in D'Addario EXL115W. It's that godamned plain G string that makes most electrics useless for playing rhythm. -Richie

P.S.- I don't very often say "trust me"

 

[antichef]

Get the guitar professionally set up -- I can't tell you what a big difference that can make. The ones I have that were set up always sound great at the 3rd, 5th, 9th, 15th, etc. fret

One thing that drives me nuts when tuning guitars is that I like to use the harmonic matching technique (e.g., 5th fret harmonic of A string same as 7th fret harmonic of D string, etc., and I started to hear the harmonics in the full notes long ago as well), but matching the harmonics will *not* actually tune the guitar, because our 12 tone scale represents subtle compromises with the mathematical purity that you lead yourself to do with the harmonics. I think J.S. Bach is credited with coming up with the compromise. Anyway, using a tuner of some sort defeats this problem, of course

 

[ocnor]

do I simply need to work on putting less pressure on the strings so they don't go sharp,

It sounds like you are pushing the strings too hard and causing them to bend sideways slightly resulting in an out of tune chord. If your guitar has a tremolo tightening the springs may solve your problem.

 

[cusebassman]

You mentioned you haven't played it in a while... might need a new set of strings if not anything else... I took mine out after months (I also play mostly acoustic), and the thing was tuning like shit. Changed the strings, didn't seem to be an intonation nightmare anymore (when forming chords over what I thought was tuned fine open).

 

[32-20-Blues]

Two things to bear in mind here -

1) Check your intonation - check the string open, and then check it at the twelfth fret. If it's sharp at the twelfth, move the saddle away from the neck. If it's flat, move the saddle towards the neck. Every time you move a saddle, retune the whole guitar before checking again.

2) Your guitar will never be fully in tune everywhere. It's the nature of the beast. You'll only ever be able to get it reasonably close.

As far as i know, Richard Monroe, the wound G string is a trick used to get three saddle Telecasters to intonate reasonably correctly. Don't know if it will apply to antispatula's instrument.

 

[Sloan]

Definitely get it setup, but always remember that you don't have to be in tune to kick ass.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Definitely get it setup, but always remember that you don't have to be in tune to kick ass.

GREAT advice. Can I use that quote from time to time?? "You don't have to be in tune to kick ass." That's awesome.

 

[Dani Pace]

From the way you describe your problem, I'd say first you need new strings, and second the intonation needs set. Strings will go "dead" on any guitar which has been stored for a while even though it hasn't been played. Dead strings not only sound dull, they are impossible to tune so that more than one chord sounds even cloce to right.

 

[rayc]

IN tune?
I though it was everyone else that was playing in the wrong key or the wrong song or something!

Um, yeah a set up THEN decided whether you need the string variation thing.
Since I CAN'T play lead I need to be able to play in tune but then agan I don't play barre cchords so I don't know whether my things are in tune above the 5th fret.

 

[Ritzy]

Sounds to me like you have an intonation problem. Do a google search on guitar intonation... that should get you plenty of info on the subject and how to set your intonation properly. Basically, that'll just involve moving your bridge saddles either forward or back a bit. Good luck!

 

[muttley600]

Sounds to me like you have an intonation problem. Do a google search on guitar intonation... that should get you plenty of info on the subject and how to set your intonation properly. Basically, that'll just involve moving your bridge saddles either forward or back a bit. Good luck!

He doesn't need to do a google search. There has been so much tlak about intonation and setup here that a search here would turn up these threads all recent.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showpost.php?p=2811059&postcount=19
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=238290
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=2501398#post2501398

There are plenty of others.

Intonation questions are so common I used to have some links in sig to good online stuff about it. Sadly we no longer have sigs.

You can find them in this thread. Originally found by crazydoc but I endorse every word in the last link

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=253665

All better than a lot of the stuff google will make you wade through.

 

[Light]

Yo Antispatula! Trust me on this one. Put light Rock/Jazz strings on it, with a wound G string. I recommend 11's, as in D'Addario EXL115W. It's that godamned plain G string that makes most electrics useless for playing rhythm. -Richie

P.S.- I don't very often say "trust me"

And you shouldn't trust him in this case.

With a very few exceptions, there is absolutely no reason a guitar can't play as in tune with a plain 3rd as with a wound third. (The exceptions involve bridges with a limited range of adjustability). Your guitar needs to be set up. If you are having problems in the first position, it is likely that the nut on your guitar is not adjusted properly adjusted (which would be typical on a factory setup), though you could also be having problems with fret wear.

Of course, there is also the issue of what is "in tune." In the two chords you show there, in the C the g string is the fifth of the chord. In the F, the g string is the third. Thirds need to be a bit sharp to sound perfectly "in tune."

I opend a tuner vst and realized that when all strings were open, they were perfectly in tune.

That is a part of your problem right there. Tuners are evil, pure and simple. Your guitar will NEVER sound in tune if all of the open strings are "perfect." If you want your guitar to sound in tune, you need to tune by ear, and if you don't know how you need to learn. Do NOT tune by harmonics either, as they will screw you even worse than a tuner will. You need to tune to a chord, and you need to experiment to figure out which chord, as it will vary depending on your style of playing. Hell, for me it frequently varies depending on the song I'm playing.

But mostly, what you need is to get your guitar set up with a new set of strings. If your used to playing acoustic, get a heavier set of strings on your guitar, as it will help keep you from pushing too hard, and it will improve your tone to boot.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[muttley600]

....and this GAL article explains why and gives you a very good method for tuning your guitar using only one string as a point of reference. There are other similar methods but they all boil down to the same thing. Tune with one string as a reference and you will not compound any inaccuracies as you tune from string to string.

 

[dragonworks]

someone else mentioned it also but you have to be careful that when you put your fingers down you are not "pulling" the strings out of tune. After over forty years of playing I still have this problem on certain chords.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Tuners are evil, pure and simple. Your guitar will NEVER sound in tune if all of the open strings are "perfect."

Good advice as usual however, as a piano tuner for 30+ years, tuners are only evil if you use them wrong; i.e., to tune open strings. You can tune chords and different positions with a tuner too and they'll be way more accurate that most peoples' ears. If everyone tuned by ear it'd end up sucking way more than using tuners since so few can actually do that.
I've tuned, as I said, for 30+ years and the last 15 years in Baton Rouge I tuned 3-5 pianos a day 6 days a week, week after week and month after month so I definitely have the ears to tune by ear and I use a tuner on stage ..... it's just easier.
But I never tune open strings with it. I'll check them all at the 3rd and 5th frets mainly and that ends up being a decent compromise.
Also ..... 3rds don't tune sharp to sound perfectly in tune .... they tune sharp to fit in with "even tempered tuning". In even-tempered tuning on a piano there are supposed to be beats. Specifically .... around 3 beats in 5 seconds.
So if you're tuned exactly to a piano, for instance, a specific 3rd interval will not sound perfectly in tune as there will be beats.

 

[muttley600]

Good advice as usual however, as a piano tuner for 30+ years, tuners are only evil if you use them wrong; i.e., to tune open strings. You can tune chords and different positions with a tuner too and they'll be way more accurate that most peoples' ears. If everyone tuned by ear it'd end up sucking way more than using tuners since so few can actually do that.
I've tuned, as I said, for 30+ years and the last 15 years in Baton Rouge I tuned 3-5 pianos a day 6 days a week, week after week and month after month so I definitely have the ears to tune by ear and I use a tuner on stage ..... it's just easier.
But I never tune open strings with it. I'll check them all at the 3rd and 5th frets mainly and that ends up being a decent compromise.
Also ..... 3rds don't tune sharp to sound perfectly in tune .... they tune sharp to fit in with "even tempered tuning". In even-tempered tuning on a piano there are supposed to be beats. Specifically .... around 3 beats in 5 seconds.
So if you're tuned exactly to a piano, for instance, a specific 3rd interval will not sound perfectly in tune as there will be beats.

What I believe Light is getting at, and he is correct is a specific problem inerrant in fretted instruments tuned in 12ET, the piano has other tuning issues as you describe. The piano and guitar tuned in 12ET can never be in tune with each other across the board it just can't be done. Both can be tuned accurately of course but 12ET sets out limitations to every instrument.

A tuner is useful only to give you your reference tone. People use tuners in live situations where tuning issues are often not as critical or volume levels and time dictate that you need to get close and fast. When recording or practicing it is essential to learn to tune the guitar using a single reference the GAL article above is one excellent way to do this.

 

[Buck62]

someone else mentioned it also but you have to be careful that when you put your fingers down you are not "pulling" the strings out of tune. After over forty years of playing I still have this problem on certain chords.

Yeah, but eventually arthritis sets in and that's not a problem anymore.

 

[antispatula]

thanks for all the help everyone
I'm going to look into intonation
and also try going back to the good old-fashioned "ear tuning" meathod.
I've discovered that I can tune the g string just right so it sounds ok open, and ok closed, but not perfect. But I know I can't perfectly tune a guitar.