Electric bass for recording

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nuemes

nuemes

Be Here Now
I'm loosing it on this one. I've been struggling for nearly a year to get good bass tone for recording from a Fernandez jazz bass & Danelectro Longhorn and I've never been happy with the results. Then I recorded a band whose bassist just bought a new Rickenbacher bass for $1200. We recorded him direct and the tone was everything I've been looking for - clean & clear - as opposed to the muddiness I've experienced with my own basses.

The dilema: is spending $1200 the answer? Is there a great bass out there that comes in at a third or half of that price?

If you've had direct experience with such a bass please let me know. I can't afford hear-say on this one!

If it helps, the type of music is indie & country.
 
ez_willis said:
How have you been recording your bass tracks? DI? New strings are a must, IMO too.
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I've been recording through the chains below (keep in mind I am not a bassist by nature). I have not put on new strings for well over a year - it seems I'm able to get away with that on guitar but maybe not so with bass? You think that can make a big difference in recording bass? If so I'll get some flatwounds immediately. To get an idea of the tone I'm getting now check out the link. Both songs were recorded through the PODxt chain below (the best sound I've managed of the chains yet)!

bass > PODxt > RNC > ADAT
bass > Avalon M5 > RNC > ADAT
bass > Fender Twin > RNC > ADAT

http://www.nowhereradio.com/nuemes/singles
 
nuemes said:
To get an idea of the tone I'm getting now check out the link. Both songs were recorded through the PODxt chain below (the best sound I've managed of the chains yet)!
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Firstly, I dig your songs, very cool! I can't stand when people compare my shit, so I won't compare yours, but I will say that I'm a big Wilco fan, and your tunes fit nicely into that genre. That's a compliment, sorry if I've offended.

Back to the bass sound. *IMO*, flatwounds have never done the trick for a clean and crisp bass sound for me. Go with roundwounds, give 'em a shot at least, it'll be cheaper than buying a new bass. And yes, again IMO, new strings are a huge contributor to a clean and crisp bass sound.
 
I'm going to get a set of roundwounds and see how that does. If it doesn't help the tone then I'll sell the two el-cheapo basses I have now and look into the Music Man Sub Bass that you and Hard to Hear recommended. It gets very good reviews at Harmony Central.

Thanks for your comments on the songs. I'm insecure about my voice so it helps! Yeah, there's definately a Wilco influence :)
 
Sounds like you like the Rickenbacker tone...

If you want that tone, I'd say you need to buy that bass model...
 
nuemes said:
I've been recording through the chains below (keep in mind I am not a bassist by nature). I have not put on new strings for well over a year - it seems I'm able to get away with that on guitar but maybe not so with bass? You think that can make a big difference in recording bass?
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Could it be that the reason the Rickenbacker sounded so good to you is that it was played by a "bassist by nature"? I don't know why people think that non-bassists can just pick up a bass and automatically sound good. 90% of the sound is in how you play it! Consider the thousands of great records that were done with Fender basses, and the variety of sounds those records represent.

New strings? It depends on what sound you're going for. With flatwounds, older is often better. James Jamerson and Joe Osborne, studio-bass giants, never changed strings unless one broke. If you're going for a bright sound, however, you want fresh roundwounds.
 
Don't forget ground roundwounds, these are roundwounds that have had the crown ground off, they are bright and have a really nice feel.
And think about replacement pickups, a cheaper option than a new bass. I have a junker bass of unknown ancestry and I put Bill Lawrence Precision replacement pu's on it and they changed the whole beast sound wise.
 
I hardly ever change the strings on my bass guitars. In fact, I just sold my Jazz bass that had the same set of strings on it for about 10 years. I like them more once they get older.

I got rid of both a Jazz and Precision once I got the Musicman. It's in the top 3 basses I have ever heard in the tone department, at any price. It has the same exact pickup and hardware as the Stingray, and sounds pretty much identical. The active EQ makes it extremely versatile. It can really do anything I'll ever need it to.

H2H
 
AGCurry said:
Could it be that the reason the Rickenbacker sounded so good to you is that it was played by a "bassist by nature"? ...New strings? It depends on what sound you're going for. With flatwounds, older is often better. If you're going for a bright sound, however, you want fresh roundwounds.
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No, it's not the player that made a difference in this case. I noticed tone improvement - no mud and clearly defined notes - immediately through the board while he was tuning up the Rickenbacker.

What are the differences between flatwounds and roundwounds sound-wise? The band Of Montreal uses a Rickenbacker with flatwounds and records direct and I love the sound they achieve. I've read that flatwounds create less finger noise when recording. Is that the main difference?

Here's a link to an Of Montreal song for an example of their bass tone. The guy is brilliant. Track is #7 (The Party is Crashing Us). Listen for the disco bass parts, not the synthetic bass. That's what I'm looking for!

http://www.polyvinylrecords.com/twins/
 
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Hard2Hear said:
Igot rid of both a Jazz and Precision once I got the Musicman. It's in the top 3 basses I have ever heard in the tone department, at any price. H2H
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Do you have any audio examples you can post online?
 
nuemes said:
What are the differences between flatwounds and roundwounds sound-wise? The band Of Montreal uses a Rickenbacker with flatwounds and records direct and I love the sound they achieve. I've read that flatwounds create less finger noise when recording. Is that the main difference?
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It is A difference, but not the main difference.

nuemes, if you take the flat ribbon winding off of most any flatwound string, you have a roundwound string (a rather ugly one). Think about what that covering is likely to do to the vibrations of the string. It acts as kind of a damper.

Until approximately 1967, all electric bass strings were flat wound. So, the sound of classic recorded rock and roll really is based on flats. Rotosound was the first company to introduce roundwounds, I believe. They provide a lot more overtones, the most extreme results sounding very piano-like (think John Entwistle of the Who).

Obviously, there are myriad variations in the sounds of both round- and flat-wound strings. I have my Fenders strung with Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats, which are amazingly good, and long-lasting.

There are so many variations that go into getting a desired bass sound (like any other sound): Attack, fingers or pick, muting, neck position, proper fingering and movement, strings, pickups, amps, etc.. I believe that a good player can get a good sound out of just about any instrument. It may not be the sound he WANTS, but it will be okay.

All I really know about Fernandes is that they make Fender knockoffs. Is it a good-quality instrument? If so, work on getting a good sound out of it; then, if it still doesn't float your boat, look around for something else.
 
AGCurry said:
All I really know about Fernandes is that they make Fender knockoffs. Is it a good-quality instrument? If so, work on getting a good sound out of it; then, if it still doesn't float your boat, look around for something else.
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AGCurry - thanks for the details on flatwounds. They sound like what I'm looking for (mellow, McCartneyish).

Yeah, the issue is the quality of the bass. I've spent hours experimenting with fingering (which I initially though was the issue) and the tones. I've been playing bass for nine years, mainly for songwriting purposes, but now that I'm getting more serious about recording the tone has become a serious factor.

The Fernandez has a few issues: single coils that buzz if not kept in parallel, and kind of a frumpy, muddy earthquake tone that requires EQ'ing of all the low end out to get a recordable tone that won't make the speakers buzz - but by then all the low end is gone!

The guy with the Rickenbacker was playing somewhat sloppy and was still getting great tone - I'm sure it's the instrument at this point.

So there's the issue at hand: I've got a budget with a $700 cut-off. So far the Music Man Sub Bass looks like a good fit.
 
At that budget you can buy a great bass. You have to try some others (not to knock the Sub). You must try a US made Fender Jazz, and a Precision, I think they'd just come in on your budget. I messed around with a lot of basses before really coming home with a standard jazz. Also a G&L L2000 - the Tribute line they do is Korean made but the Premium in that range, with a swamp ash body, 2 soap bars and a pre on board, is amazing vfm and uses top line US electrics. Huge range of sounds, but at heart it's a rock bass. I have one and don't play it too much because it has a P style wide fingerboard, plus I am more a funk/jazz player, but it's a great bass if you have a good finger reach.

Not to mention Yamaha (they make some beautiful instruments), Spector, Ibanez...spend a couple of days in the shops before you buy. I had a Rick for a while but hated it after a few months - one trick pony - and am really happy now with a US made Jazz as the main axe. Top end Fenders are SO easy to play.
 
Garry Sharp said:
I had a Rick for a while but hated it after a few months - one trick pony - and am really happy now with a US made Jazz as the main axe. Top end Fenders are SO easy to play.
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Rickenbacker a one trick pony? What makes you say that? Why do you prefer the Jazz over precision or the Rick? I'm not particularly familiar with them so any personal experience you can offer would be great help.
 
Hard2Hear said:
MusicMan SUB Bass.
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Great industrial-grade bass. Ugly, but great.

I got a new S.U.B. for US$319.99 at Guitar Center last year and it's my best bass buy ever, I think...though a lot of GCs seem to have sold Bongos for $499.99[!!!] this past Memorial Day. :eek: Unfortunately, my GC was not among them. :(
 
I think my SUB is cool looking. I have a red one, with a pearloid Stingray guard on it. But compared to the sweet looking Stingrays they are rather plain.

I have all my music on my website, just click me name and go to my homepage. I used the SUB on "Katie Rocks". I don't really have anything else up yet with it. The other stuff on that page has a MIM Jazz, a '66 Precision, a Hamer Chap5, and a Rick 4003. Those are all the basses I have used before getting the MM Sub.

H2H
 
bongolation said:
got a new S.U.B. for US$319.99 at Guitar Center last year and it's my best bass buy ever, I think...though a lot of GCs seem to have sold Bongos for $499.99[!!!]
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I spoke to the GC near me earlier today and they said they are out of the Music Man SUBs but are having a blowout on the Bongos, Sterlings and Stingrays ($800 for a Stingray)...
 
Hard2Hear said:
I used the SUB on "Katie Rocks". I don't really have anything else up yet with it. The other stuff on that page has a MIM Jazz, a '66 Precision, a Hamer Chap5, and a Rick 4003. Those are all the basses I have used before getting the MM Sub.H2H
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Thanks H2H. The sound examples are very helpful. The bass on "Katie Rocks" sounds clear, powerful and it doesn't get muddy on my subwoofer. That is nice! If you recall, can you list what basses you used for the other songs (especially the Rick & Precision)? I'd love to hear those too.
 
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